A Few Questions for ZX2 Owners

[toddc]

Hello All,
Well I finally received my new upper rear idler wheel assy from Ad Boivin and was able to finish up the install on my 05 600. BTW, for you 503F & 600 owners who have converted to the ZX2, complain to AD Bovin about not supplying you a new wheel assy. and making you scrounge parts from your old suspension......you may get lucky and have them agree to send you a new one free of charge.....or you may just have to pony up another $150. The replacement assy is less than half the weight of reusing your original, and you all know that every bit of weight you can remove is a benefit.
Anyway, now that I have it complete, I have a few questions for you other owners out there, keep in mind I've haven't been able to trail test it yet due to lack of snow:

1)Stiffness- I have the preload set as light as possible and even with me jumping up and down on the machine, I can't get the suspension to compress.
AD Boivin says it will take a couple hundred miles for the suspension to break-in and loosen up. What have you guys experienced?

2)Limit Strap Adjustment- According to my instructions the limiter strap needs to be adjusted to its shortest position. With the suspension at full droop there is a lot of tension on the strap. Could this be related to the stiffness of the suspension. They do not recommend deviating from the shortest position.

3)Ride height- The rear of my 600 now sets about as low as my 503F. I think I lost a good 3" of seat height. Not a big deal, I just don't want to lose suspension travel along with it. Did you guys lose about the same in rear height?

4)Shock setup- Are most of you running the dual or single? If single, what type of riding do you do, and what length of track? Do you experience bottoming out of the suspension on big jumps? Rider weight?

Thanks guys, just trying to get a feel for this thing......I have to tell you, I'm not real impressed with it so far...but then again I haven't had to out on the snow yet.

-Todd

 

[RudeAwakening]

someone please answer! i want to know too!

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

Hello All,
Well I finally received my new upper rear idler wheel assy from Ad Boivin and was able to finish up the install on my 05 600. BTW, for you 503F & 600 owners who have converted to the ZX2, complain to AD Bovin about not supplying you a new wheel assy. and making you scrounge parts from your old suspension......you may get lucky and have them agree to send you a new one free of charge.....or you may just have to pony up another $150. The replacement assy is less than half the weight of reusing your original, and you all know that every bit of weight you can remove is a benefit.
Anyway, now that I have it complete, I have a few questions for you other owners out there, keep in mind I've haven't been able to trail test it yet due to lack of snow:

1)Stiffness- I have the preload set as light as possible and even with me jumping up and down on the machine, I can't get the suspension to compress.
AD Boivin says it will take a couple hundred miles for the suspension to break-in and loosen up. What have you guys experienced?

2)Limit Strap Adjustment- According to my instructions the limiter strap needs to be adjusted to its shortest position. With the suspension at full droop there is a lot of tension on the strap. Could this be related to the stiffness of the suspension. They do not recommend deviating from the shortest position.

3)Ride height- The rear of my 600 now sets about as low as my 503F. I think I lost a good 3" of seat height. Not a big deal, I just don't want to lose suspension travel along with it. Did you guys lose about the same in rear height?

4)Shock setup- Are most of you running the dual or single? If single, what type of riding do you do, and what length of track? Do you experience bottoming out of the suspension on big jumps? Rider weight?

Thanks guys, just trying to get a feel for this thing......I have to tell you, I'm not real impressed with it so far...but then again I haven't had to out on the snow yet.

-Todd

I have a 151 and it said to run the shortest limit strap setting. what length do you have? Mine sounds stiff just like you say.
2 shorter track length can use longer settings I'm sure

3 I'm sure mine sits same height as before
4 using dual shocks as per manual.
sure hope it work well for all types of riding.

 

[snowhawk jockey]

I can't speak to the ZX2, wish I could! The issue with no suspension action:

The skid/hyfax/track stick together and to the ground when they are dry and not spinning. If you put a one of those three-wheeled ski dollies under your skid/track, it will keep the track from sticking to the ground and the suspension can move with your weight on it. It (the coaster) will also allow the rear to skid out on you, causing hard lowside crashes in the garage while standing still...embarrassing and painful to say the least.

 

[toddc]

J&L- I take it you haven't had your ZX2 out on the snow either? I'm running a 136".

Jockey- I hadn't thought of that.....I put a dolly underneath the track , and jumped up and down on the suspension and still could barely get it to move.

I've been thinking about the stiffness of the suspension and I believe it may just be related to the warm temperature in the garage causing the components to be tight and bind. It's interesting that tension settings on the track are to be done a 70 degeees F, and adjust for no sag at rails. At 15 deg F. the suspension "shrinks" and the sag should be around 1.5".
I just need to get some snow to check this beast out!

-Todd

 

[toddc]

Well, I've put a few rides on the new ZX2 and have some further info-

The ride is still super harsh...I had my 300+ lb buddy ride it for a morning, and the suspension still never loosened up. I've played around with the limiter strap adjustment and it seems to have no affect on the ride.

So, this morning I called AD Boivin(oh the horror!), to hash it out.
Apparently, there is a soft progressive spring kit available for the ZX2. My kit came with the standard 280lb springs that are the exact same springs on the later version of Expert Xtreme, and this is what they send out the door for putting the skid under a regular two skier chassis. I believe, the progressive spring kit is very similar to what came stock on the 503F rear skid. So, for those of you fighting the stiff spring rate on the ZX2, you need to shell out another $190.00 for the CORRECT springs. If you are ordering a new ZX2, I'd recommend requesting the progressive rate springs. You would assume that AD Boivin would include the correct springs with your kit, since you are ordering it for a Snow Hawk, but obviously not. It makes sense now why some guys where reporting that the ZX2 ride was perfect-cushy over the little bumps, but didn't bottom out on the big jumps, and others, like me, found the ride stiff and harsh overall.

Oh and BTW, you can tell the progressive spings from the normal 280lb springs by the progressive kit having a spacer at the preload adjuster.
And another interesting fact- the travel on the ZX2 at the pivot is 8", which equates to about 12" at the rear of the skid. Nothing near the 16" of the Expert Xtreme. YMMV

-Todd

 

[snowhawk jockey]

... So, for those of you fighting the stiff spring rate on the ZX2, you need to shell out another $190.00 for the CORRECT springs. If you are ordering a new ZX2, I'd recommend requesting the progressive rate springs. You would assume that AD Boivin would include the correct springs with your kit, since you are ordering it for a Snow Hawk, but obviously not...
-Todd

If the springs hadn't been ridden, I'd have sent them to the fellow answering the parts/tech desk telephone(that sent the zx2 with sled vs hawk springs in the first place)and payed shipping back to exchange them for the progressives. Now that they have been ridden its the $190 option for ya', teh sux. Sorry that your skid is giving you trouble!
Its only 12 inches travel? I don't think that a Hawk uses 16"s very well anyway, the steering geometry gets all screwy when the tail is on the ground. ~12" is more along the lines of our Moto suspension.

 

[roo]

stiff springs?

how stiff? is it rideable or stupid? I was told, after the fact , about the lighter spring kit. how much do u weigh? $150 shaft @ wheels,$190 springs W.T.F

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

BS

I made a call today about the springs as well. As you know I installed the zx2 151 in my hawk and said it was rock hard like the expert. I confirmed the wrong springs for the hawk as todd stated. Im not too happy about all of this, should no be a mix up if they would ask some questions when things are ordered.

 

[TLKDPROD]

I can't beleive all of the above... That, unfortunately, make sense with all the rest though.

They probably ordered a crate of these 280 springs and are just putting them everywhere since '05.

The 503 had progressive springs but are way harder than the stock 280s. Mines on my Hawks were waaaaay too soft that's why I had Cycle Improvements in Ontario kustom wound some springs for me...

If I were to buy some other springs after buyin a brand new ZX2 because they didn't provided the right one, I'd just go somewhere else BIG TIME.

Too bad stuff like that happens, plus they had that suspension on one of their renthals back east last year... So there's no way they didn't know that.

 

[toddc]

Yeah, I can't believe that AD Boivin would sent out a ZX2 for a Hawk with the 280 springs, the suspension is totally unusable in that configuration. When I talked to them they made it sound like the progressive springs were an option, instead of what should have come standard.
I've already dropped $2K+ on this suspension, so I don't have the option of "going somewhere else", I have to make it work. Trust me, it takes all my patience and then some just to deal with the factory.
It's real sad that AD Bovin has great products, but the inability to market them in a business like fashion.

-Todd

 

[TLKDPROD]

Holy F'Hawk ! At that price, they should just take back the 280s and send you the correct rate springs, no questions asked. It's their mistake.

And by going somewhere else, I mean getting prog springs from someone else.

Attached is my kustom wound 3-4 kg/mm (168-224 lbs/po) Spring for my front forward shock. I still don't know if i'll use it. A pair of those would probably work pretty well underneath that ZX2.

 

[roo]

unusable?

Yeah, I can't believe that AD Boivin would sent out a ZX2 for a Hawk with the 280 springs, the suspension is totally unusable in that configuration. When I talked to them they made it sound like the progressive springs were an option, instead of what should have come standard.
I've already dropped $2K+ on this suspension, so I don't have the option of "going somewhere else", I have to make it work. Trust me, it takes all my patience and then some just to deal with the factory.
It's real sad that AD Bovin has great products, but the inability to market them in a business like fashion.

-Todd

is it rideable? how much do u weigh? does anyone know the lighter weight spring #'s, wonder if close to 503, 600 springs? don't want to ride a brick and don't want to order springs from ADB. talked to adb today, quote "if u weigh over 180, springs should be ok, all zx2 are sent with heavy springs if want lighter spring kit add $190 to price of zx2". backwards? being 215 lbs I have always resprung motorcycles, but being to soft is not near the issue. if anyone knows any numbers pppllleeeaaassseee give em up? thanks

 

[toddc]

The machine is rideable in the deep...but trail riding sucks. I weigh about 180# geared up. AD Boivin is out of their mind if they are telling people the stiff springs are fine if you weigh more than 180......I had my 300#+ buddy on it and the suspension would still hardly compress.
They are even more out of their minds if they want an additional $190 on top of the base ZX2 price for the progressive springs. This just goes to show how they have turned their back on the Hawk and are focusing on the Explorer and aftermarket rear skid market.

When I receive the progressive springs, I'll post up the details on them.


-Todd

 

[RudeAwakening]

i was just told that there progressive springs are 3 stage
105 125 195 with a shim to make feel tighter
that seems to be pretty soft!

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

????

so who was asked when ordering a new zx2 what type of spring they wanted. Just curious because I never had a clue there was an option. I also didn't think I need snowcross stiff suspension to use on a 151" mountain system but what would I know. In the 09 order form information there is no option for spring rate listed anywhere. I will probally here about this post but this type of thing really pisses me off.

 

[roo]

289# ?

checked service manual 600 and 800 are listed as coming stock with 280# springs????????? is this right? 503 manual doesn't list spring rate, anyone know?
machine almost done, would like to get this straightened out before I hit the snow! this is, for sure, the best place to find the info!

 

[RudeAwakening]

just in case i havent told you guys latley! i love you!!

thanks for all the great info!

 

[buffaloHAWK]

503 springs

i think they are 180-460 or something like that....i put my 503 springs in my 600 suspension thats on a 503 hawk. havent got to test it yet. the 280 springs are way to stiff for small bumps but would still blow through the travel after a bigger hit. hopefully the 503 springs in the 600 skid on my 503will be the shiznit

 

[TLKDPROD]

185-460

checked service manual 600 and 800 are listed as coming stock with 280# springs????????? is this right? 503 manual doesn't list spring rate, anyone know?
machine almost done, would like to get this straightened out before I hit the snow! this is, for sure, the best place to find the info!

Spring on the 503 was what they call as "dual rate 185/460 lbs".

(This is according to the manual you can find on ADB's website, page 12-3, Spring is item #69... wooohooo...)

Now that's interesting: Single rate, dual rate & triple rate vs Progressive. I would think the dual rate spring, for example, has 2 different pitches as opposed to a progressive that has a continuous different pitch from start rate to finish rate. I think progressive might be better because of that. Once you collaps the softer rat, you hit the second rate which is kind of way harder. "Real progressive springs" should allow for a smoother transition... Of course it all depends on how the leverage ratio in on the suspension...

Hey I got a little off subject here ! Hahaha ! Just my too cents anyway !

Thierry