92 Talon NO START (long, sorry)

[PowderBrad]

Hey Guys,

Queston for anyone familiar with Eagle Talons. I was driving home late one night (about 1.5 years ago now) and my timing belt blew, bent some valves. No prob, me and my dad replace valves and rebuild it, and it fires up and runs. A little rough, and smokey (valve guides were slightly damaged, and I didnt get a new head or machine it, reused old one). We had it up and running on and off for a couple hours, longest was for like 30 mins. Semeed normal enough. Then we shut it off. Never runs ever again.

Now we've looked at it every few months off and on to see why it wont run and we cant figure it out. Now my dad was an auto tech for like 25 years, and now is a heavy duty tech rebuilding CAT, so he knows a thing or two.

What we've tried and know we have:

-Have compression
-Have spark (he's thinking possibly a weak coil though. We have spark when checking, but he thinks it may be low under load)
-Have good fuel pressure and delivery
- changed ECU, MAF, crank sensor, checked timing, firing order, still no start. Relays and fuses are good.
- we checked no start procedure for a talon, and voltages measured well at test points (he has a buddy that printed some out for us from a dealership) on ECU.
-timed correctly, and firing order is good.
-new plugs, battery good. Starter and alt are good as well.

Now it cranks and feels like its SO CLOSE to starting. It turn over and wants to catch, but just doesnt.

Any ideas?

Im relying on my dad to know as I kinda dont (i have some knowledge , but not enough) and if he cant get it, Im hooped. I just wanna get it running and sell it as its been parked in driveway for 2 years now.

Thanks guys.

 

[Weekday Warrior]

put some gas in it


























or at least check the fuel delevery

 

[PowderBrad]

delivery and pressure are good.

 

[letitsnow]

hopefully the gas in it isn't a year and a half old!? you could have fixed the problem but the gas would probably be bad by now so it won't fire...had that happen on a bike a long time ago

 

[opus]

Quick shot of ether and see if it fires.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Have you checked to see if your injectors are physically firing? My buddy has a fairly modded Talon and it stopped running all of a sudden and it ended up being a faulty ground that cause his injectors to not work. Maybe when you put the head back on you forgot a ground somewhere.

 

[winter brew]

Had a Yota that gave me similar symptoms and it turned out the throttle position sensor was loose and way out of adjustment.

 

[dog breath]

I had the ECU break due to capacitors leak over the years. The link below will let you know the symptoms. You can also pull ECU out and open it up. You will see leaking capacitors on board from heat/cold cycles. Took about 2 weeks to finally troubleshoot the ECU. Chilton book said to do all these ohm checks and then at the end of the checks, it says if everyone is working, then replace ECU. Have fun checking and looking.

http://www.3si.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_Replace_the_Capacitors_in_a_1G_ECU%3F

 

[carguy]

I had a 1990 Talon. A friend (mechanic) of mine replaced the timing belt, as part of my preventative maintenance. I did not want to do it as the timing belt replacement is very specific with Talons. He said he was comfortable with it so I paid him to do it. Job done, car ran rough, very rough. We drove it home and parked it while my mechanic friend was on holidays. When he got back we towed the car back to him, didn't want to start it because it ran rough. So he had it a long time then one night I get a call that the timing "jumped" or something and the valves & pistons collided....this engine is a zero clearance engine which makes this all bad. He paid for the cylinder head rebuild (complete rebuild), cost him more than I originally paid him. I was instructed by 5 Chrysler dealers in town who said to replace the balance shaft belt and bottom end bearings as well. they figured when I originally drove the car home the balance shaft belt was not adjusted properly and since that and the timing jumped the bottom end needed a rebuild as well. Essentially the entire engine was rebuilt because my mechanic friend did not follow the specific instructions to replace a timing belt in my Eagle Talon.

Did you replace the balance shaft belt? Also when we originally bought the car we had the timing belt done as part of the deal. Didn't know there was a balance shaft belt in the car. About six months after buying the car it began to run rough one day and quit. I had it towed to a Chrysler dealer then and I was told the balance shaft belt had busted. The car would turn over and fire but not start because that belt had broke. Had I known about it I would have had it replaced with the timing belt when we bought the car.

Don't know if this helps or not. I miss my Tsi, sold it when we had kids. A great car, probably wrapped around a pole by the teenager who bought it.

 

[stalefish_132]

just a thought, check the CPS (crank position sensor), located on the left side of the vavle cover. had this happen to my sister's 92, had good fuel pressure good spark but no fuel being injected due to bad CPS.

good fourms are dsmtuners and dsmtalk.

good luck buddy

just noticed your from edmonton, try calgarydsm, lots of smart guys on there.

 

[PowderBrad]

thanks guys.

Tried a new ECU, tried a new crank sensor, we did change the balance shaft belt as well. Timing is good, we've looked that over several times, as well as checking the balance belt. I guess yet another check wouldnt hurt.

We know its getting fuel as the damn things floods after a couple tries. And we've tried fogging it with a quick shot, we've put new gas and changed the oil as well. Oil was full of gas to, thought it muight help changing.

We'll check on injectors, maybe failing under load?
-Also check tps as well....again.