825 twin info/suggestions/???

[wrtmani]

Long story short--Bought a motor from "XCRPROX" on HCS--was supposed to be a 925 PSI motor based on a 700 bottom end with a 76mm stroked crank and 88mm pistons. Been getting di**ed around from him on some misc. parts he owes me for the motor , so being suspicious of his methods, I was concerned about condition of crank and so took bottom end and cylinders to local shop. Turns out crank is a stock 700 crank with 68mm stroke. Pistons are indeed 88mm (I measured the bores beforehand, pistons are marked 87. something something MM on top). Pistons are 20mm wrist pin (stock 700) not 22mm as on 925.

Cylinders are Polaris cylinders, not PSI units. One is a "220" cylinder from a 97 or eary 98 700, while other is a "824" cylinder, late "98 and on. He said the motor ran but "leaked water" on the 824 cylinder, something about the 220 cylinder having thicker cooling passages after the oversize sleeve was installed???. Cylinders are steel bore not nic'd.

Just looking for more info on these motors, and some thoughts as to whether I should keep it and try to make it work? Or get rid of it and chalk it up to a lesson learned? The crank appears sound, and I know the pistons may be worth some to where I could maybe break even or lose a minimal amount. I'm not believing that Prox is gonna even acknowledge his actions let alone offer to make it right or make me want to buy from him again.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I thank the many helpful and trustworthy folks I know are on SW for the assistance. It's no wonder this forum is where I spend the majority of my time over all others!!!!

 

[slash]

yes its a 825 big prob is the ports on the 220 cyl are bigger than the 824 cyl ,also the leak is a problem ,the pistons are marked 87.5mm bore is 88mm very hard to find pistons unless bruce has some...801-393-1010if it were me id find a set of stock 220 cyls and run it as a 700 or find the piston # for a 770 they run very well..

 

[wrtmani]

The pistons that came with it appear to be usable, I would have to measure them up and such, but they look good, no scoring and such, domes look like very little use. Cylinders look good as well, would just want to check things over thouroughly before I make a decision one way or another.

 

[slash]

keep it cool mine although a 925 likes 120 to 140 deg max big u-cooler helps with heat
had to put a storm t-stat asmbly om mine ran too cool . I think the 825 made about 175hp with twins .Have fun
PS turbotater, Scott ,or myself can help if you have problems...

 

[Scott]

I had a similar situation like this 2 years ago.

Things worked out...sort of...and only from the help of this great forum community. And the guy hasn't been back on here since.

The scammer DID give a little bit back, but it still cost me a lot more to get it running to where it was advertised.


http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157918

 

[Norway]

I had a similar situation like this 2 years ago.

Things worked out...sort of...and only from the help of this great forum community. And the guy hasn't been back on here since.

The scammer DID give a little bit back, but it still cost me a lot more to get it running to where it was advertised.


http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157918

Man, read through Scotts thread. And if you have any good proof at all to lay on the table, GET AFTER HM!!! Not good-for-court stuff, but e-mails and things.

Really pisses me off when people do that, makes the rest of us uneasy doing business with good people.

Rune,
Norway

 

[wrtmani]

Man, read through Scotts thread. And if you have any good proof at all to lay on the table, GET AFTER HM!!! Not good-for-court stuff, but e-mails and things.

Really pisses me off when people do that, makes the rest of us uneasy doing business with good people.

Rune,
Norway

Well, only have a couple e-mails from him after the initial purchase. I had a problem after the purchase with the Paypal account I used (long story ) to pay him the initial purchase price, couldn't get final $25 to him until a month later. A couple weeks after I was able to pay him, asked him if he got payment and if he shipped parts. He said he did and that he would ship them as soon as he got back from vacation in Florida. A couple weeks go by, still no parts. He e-mails back that since it took so long to pay him, that he would ship other misc. parts when he felt like it. That's when I started questioning the original parts. Of course, he's clammed up and won't answer my PM's here or on HCS.

I posted a "buyer beware" thread in HCS's "Classifieds Feedback" section on him. I really think this forum needs a section like that, that even though HCS won't let you post their name, address, and phone number, just being able to give a thumbs up or down on a seller (or buyer) is extremely helpful.

 

[w browning]

I have two cylinders off an early 825 psi, they are 88mm and appear to be in good shape. I don't have the heads I used them on another 825 psi. If you want them you can have them if you pay shipping. I got the motor off ebay and like you was told it was a 925, it had a cooked piston, I finally found pistons back east but had to buy the cylinders too, I used the cylinders purchased with the pistons, It runs real strong but closer to 150 than 175 horsepower. You'll find psi horsepower and actual horsepower are two different things. P.M. me if you want these old jugs. Pat

 

[w browning]

Mike, I found the cylinders complete with pipe flanges, Will ship them tomorrow, Hope they work for you. Pat

 

[wrtmani]

Got the cylinders from W Browning yesterday (Thanks, Pat!) They indeed are PSI cast cylinders, and look to be in good shape. I'm just looking for more info on these and things to watch out for with them.

Each cylinder is marked "MAG" or "PTO" on the exhaust flange, there is the # 68150 on both of them. PTO is stamped "2401", MAG is marked "2402B". Tried setting them down on the bottom end of motor, looks like the upper case is going to need to be machined to accept them, which is a given. Just needs more than what if any was done to accept the Polaris cylinders I already have.

I've pretty much decided to keep this motor and make it work, just gonna be asking lots about them, like clutching, ignition, carburation, etc. I appreciate everybody's assistance so far on this undertaking. Thank you!!

 

[Turbotater]

You need to check the port timing, squish clearance, compression ratio etc before you ever pull the rope. Theres nothing standard in mod motors, especially PSI.
For example, I just finished a 970 Price motor. It need a new case and crankshaft. The owner sent a new case to Price and had the case and crank done. I had to raise the ports and cut the heads to bring it back to the same specs it was before. The difference was in how much was machined off the deck of the case after all the casting voids were filled in with epoxy.
Never leave it to chance. Its expensive.

 

[wrtmani]

You need to check the port timing, squish clearance, compression ratio etc before you ever pull the rope. Theres nothing standard in mod motors, especially PSI.
For example, I just finished a 970 Price motor. It need a new case and crankshaft. The owner sent a new case to Price and had the case and crank done. I had to raise the ports and cut the heads to bring it back to the same specs it was before. The difference was in how much was machined off the deck of the case after all the casting voids were filled in with epoxy.
Never leave it to chance. Its expensive.

Been thinking more about these excellent points and had a couple more questions:

--The cast cylinders I got from Pat, the bore on the cylinders needs to match the pistons I have plus allowable tolerances for piston expansion, etc. So if the bore is too far oversize for my pistons what are my options? I know, bigger bore or bigger pistons, but there is a limit where the cast bore can resized before sleeving, plating or (?) is required? These cylinders require a PSI head beacause of their shape/stud configuration, correct?

--The 220/824 cylinders-- Should I try to find a core 220 cylinder and have the sleeve removed (if possible?) from the 824 and have it matched to the 220, again making sure I can use the pistons I have? Looking at the 824 cylinder it appears thast there is no casting of the inner wall of the cylinder left against the sleeve, there appears to be a small amount of this wall left on the 220 cylinders.

--In reference to port matching and machining for whichever cylinders I end up using, would I be better off to start with a set of stock cases that hasn't already been altered, or the cases I have that have already been cut for the Polaris cylinders? My mind says there would be more work in trying to redo someone else's modifications to match the PSI cylinders?

--Supposedly the Polaris heads I got with the motor are cut for the big bore, how do I measure for sure how these compare to a stock head for compression, volume, etc?

Thanks Tater (and everyone) for the advice and suggestions--keep it coming!!

 

[slash]

Its just too bad you are so far away long distance help takes too much time ..

 

[slash]

I know its not cheep but i would send it to tater and have him prep it and arange a billet head, or you could buy my 925 and spare parts..

 

[Scott]

I know its not cheep but i would send it to tater and have him prep it and arange a billet head, or you could buy my 925 and spare parts..

That's a smart move.

 

[sled_guy]

The 824/220 cylinders won't matter on a mod motor if its been sleeved and ported. The difference between them was the porting, not the internal passage way castings. I've run lots of mismatches after having the ports matched.

That said, I wouldn't spend any time/money on the lined cylinders. The 825 big bore ran about as good as a ported and piped 700. Once the 800s came out it wasn't worth it any more.

Find a set of good 700 cylinders, call Carl's and beg them to port them for you, and run it as a ported 700 and you'll be super happy.

sled_guy

 

[snownman]

find a stock 700...

PSI is a thing of the past. I've been around many. saw VERY FEW that ran better than a stock 700. and reliability, thats the real problem. parts, thats another REAL problem. Unless you can get ahold of the right guys on here that have a few left laying around. good luck, Its no fun towing your sled back over and over.

 

[vwsprite]

what are the thoughts on 84mm wiseco pistons and boring? would love to get more out of my 700, i have it in an raw chassis, with a long track, is it cheaper/better to find an 800?

 

[wrtmani]

I've been contemplating doing a 754, the pistons are readily available compared to a 770 or this 825/925, and from what I've read they are very reliable. Money wise I think it would be about the same or just a bit more as an 800.

 

[slash]

its a good setup they work very well