2012 Pro down twice - need advice/help - Warranty??

[Brutis20]

So here is the story (2012 Pro 163):

Bought sled last year off a guy brand new. Has 2 year snow check warranty. Sled ran great all year when at 730 miles I folded a ring and took out the top end. Dealer warrantied sled and did a good job on getting all new parts (cylinder, pistons, crank and all the fixings). I was happy with this. Sled was repaired this fall due to long wait times. Dealer said they put 3L of coolant in it (as tunnel was not drained) and did 5 mile test run.

Did a few miles around the house and seemed to run fine (Nov). Took sled to the hills and put on 30 miles, ran good but did notice a slight burble on bottom end (before clutch engagement) but would clean up, not a real big deal but never had it before. Right before the second ride to the hills noticed that the coolant was empty! So I figured just a bit of air, filled back up and rode about 50 miles in the hills watching it through out the day and it was dropping a bit and did get lower in bottle when shut down. When we got back to the trucks it was out of the bottle again (after cool down). I never did see it higher at any points, would always drop or be lower.

I went into dealer and told them about my problem, they told me it has to be an air lock. So they gave me a bottle of coolant and told me the trick of running on the side with cap on loose to remove air bubbles. So I filled back up and tried this, got it hot and did this and some air did come out but was instant and circulating ok. It got up to 140F so I went for a burn (2 ft of snow here) and cooled it back to normal and repeated the air bubble removal, also cracked the bleed screw on head. It did drop about 1" in bottle after all this but just could not determine where it was going.

Just to note all this time I could not find any coolant leaking or smell or taste it in the exhaust, been looking for this since I suspected an issue. No coolant on floor when cold or hot, maybe it wass somewhere but I sure couldnt find where it was going.

Went back to dealer to bug them about this and they were still convinced it was an air bubble (~ 90 miles since rebuild at this time). They could not get the sled in before holidays but were persistant it was an air bubble. At this point I had put about 2L into it.

So after the holidays I topped it back up to the line and went for another ride to see if I could find this leak or some sort of sign. Sled was running good and I opened it up across the field (2 ft of snow still) and then it started to bogg down real bad, I noticed the coolant temps shoot up from 120 to 150F in about 4 seconds, I let of the throttle and it seized! It was solid so I let it cool off. Opened both panels and there was coolant on the clutch side floor panel only? I had no cell service and was a few miles from the house. After 10 mins I pulled ont he rope and it was free. I started it and ran it home as it was of course running horrible.

This didnt overly surprise me with what was all going on. I took it into the dealer. So they pulled the head off and the PTO side I believe was cooked. I didnt think much of them covering this but they proceeded to tell me they were not going to cover it under warranty! I asked why and they said there was 3 heat codes (P0217 - Engine Over temp fault), which didnt surprise me with it burning down. They said no way will polaris warranty it with these codes.

I then got them to do a pressure test on the coolant system (yes after they already pulled the head - the put it back on...) of course it passed only dropped 1 psi over night. So they now say with this and the codes and because they cant find a problem that polaris will not cover this. I still am not sold on air lock as there was 5L added since the rebuild and capacity is 5L (never mind the amount already in tunnel hoses etc..) They said they wont even take it to Polaris because they have no reason why it went?? This seems really funny that they wouldnt even try and this is after 3 days of arguing with them still.

Of course I think this is obsurd, why is it my problem they cant find why this went. Of course they will give me a deal on a new top end for $1600...I thought of 100 reasons why this should be not my problem but they will not even take it to Polaris. Also said because it lasted 100 miles that its nothing that they did.

I literally just did what they told me to do and now it's my problem apparently. Of course after this they told me I should have just brought it in (even though I tried to get it in).

So anyway I am requesting:
1) Advice on how to handle this with the dealer. Honestly I thought they were pretty good but dont know whats going on here.
2) Any ideas on why it was loosing coolant with no obvious signs of leaks.


Anything would help and I am sure most would agree with me on this, let me know if I am missing something.

Thanks

 

[mtncat1]

open a case with polaris see what they say about it sounds like cya by the shop

 

[Oregonsledder]

Bad water pump, thermostat???

 

[theletup]

IMHO the dealer should not have let you take the sled after bringing it back the first time or they should have insisted that you bring it back in if you were having problems with a new motor. I believe that it very well could have been air locked in the beginning but seems unlikely after it burped down multiple times. I'm not sure about sleds but I have need many cars leak internally only while under load which may be why you couldn't smell or see it leaking while parked.

With that being said I would be furious that the dealer would not cover top end. Unfortunately they can make up what ever excuses they want not to warranty their work and having heat codes stored makes that very easy for them to say you went out and overheated it. Especially since the system holds pressure just fine, so it's your word against theirs. Sounds like your dealer is about as helpful as mine which is sad.

I would try writing a letter or have a meeting with the owner of the dealership. I would go straight to the guy in charge if possible. Explain to him exactly how it went down and if they don't cover it pee on his car.

 

[dub]

Go get your sled and take it to another dealer. I have had 4 full motors warrantied in the last 2 years. No reason they won't cover it.

 

[skibreeze]

In the states we have alot of remedies. BBB, States attorneys office, small claims court, Polaris Customer service line. I wouldn't be leaving the dealer w/o the threat of arrest if they tried that crap. Their at fault for not taking the coolant issue more seriously, it should have never left the dealer properly burped and if it needed 5 liters something was wrong before it left the shop.

 

[kyle019]

In the states we have alot of remedies. BBB, States attorneys office, small claims court, Polaris Customer service line. I wouldn't be leaving the dealer w/o the threat of arrest if they tried that crap. Their at fault for not taking the coolant issue more seriously, it should have never left the dealer properly burped and if it needed 5 liters something was wrong before it left the shop.

My thoughts exactly. I think the dealer is at fault. No way should the sled have needed 5L of coolant after they suposedly put 3L in. My guess would be that the airlock was alot bigger than they thought and didnt take it as seriously as they should've. There was most likely lots of air left in the cooling system and it got worse with your sled over heating (airlocks are caused by overheating) to the point where it finally cooked. A sled that was brought in to my dealer had an air lock, that bog you said you felt most likely was the sled going into limp mode for a split second as thats what happened to the sled at my dealer.

 

[n55w131]

Warranty Issue

Regarless of what transpired, if your machine is still under its powertrain warranty, polaris will honor it unless its a case of modifications and or abuse.

In this case its the dealers responsability to "burp" the machine and see to it that the coolant is full. Yes there are small pockets that can cause the level in the resivior to drop and its up to you to re-fill it. But this case seems beyond that.

The dealer is not the one who decides whats covered under warranty. The tech's submit an "Ask Polaris" case with all your information and Polaris decides what is covered. Anything over $1000 requires pre-authorization. So ask your dealer to see the pre-authorization denial response from ploaris if one so exisits. I doubt it. Sounds like your just getting a brush off.

Try another dealer, then submit a comment card to polaris about your displeasure of the service the first dealer gave you. Trust me they do not go un-noticed, by polaris and the dealer management.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

 

[bown6]

Its a head gasket leak and tell them to show you the old one from when they took the head off to check it . I'd say it was a leaking head to start with I had one that did that same thing.

 

[Brutis20]

Thanks guys, just to clarify I added 2L of coolant after the rebuild.

The tech said he added 3L on rebuild (with the tunnel still being full). So Just what he put in and me there was 5L never mind what was in the tunnel.

The only time I ever seen the engine temp above 140 after the rebuild was right before it cooked, when it was dying. I am not saying the airlock didnt cause the engine, I just dont believe its the same one from the rebuild. Mabe developing it somehow. Also I didnt see any traces of coolant leaks prior to the melt down but that doesnt mean it was leaking somewhere I didnt catch.

My big issue is that they are not even taking it to Poalris apparently because of these over heat codes. It seems really fishy now that I think about it. I would like to here it from Polaris not a dealer.



I am calling a few other dealers and get some thougts.

 

[skibreeze]

They probably don't want Polaris to look at it, because it will show them to be liable for the failure.

 

[cateye5312]

They probably don't want Polaris to look at it, because it will show them to be liable for the failure.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Sledbrain2]

O-ring leaking, pumping air into system why it seemed to have an air lock. I lost my cap and rolled over while climbing. Had to add a liter of back in. Temp light came on short time there after. I did the (found cap in belly pan) remove cap while running it to relieve the air bubbles. Never had a problem after that. I would guess that it got worse over time and maybe let go enough to cause a large air bubble shutting off the flow completely. I bet the tech noticed the crimped or broken o-ring and made up the story to cha. Just a guess

 

[Oregonsledder]

Generally speaking you can smell antifreeze in the exhaust when it's a engine leak. When I do cooling system work I always verify that the water pump is actually pumping. You can feel the temp go up on the heat exchangers as soon as the thermostat opens. If you don't soon feel heat it's not pumping. It will then pump out coolant out the overflow. Air pockets don’t usually cause much of a problem, other than making it so you may have to top off the coolant bottle a time or two.

 

[Brutis20]

Interesting Dealings!

So I called another dealer today and they said it was strange as you cant void warranty with that heat code. He requested I talk to the Polaris Support.

So last night whenI was talking with this dealer he did say he will try and ask a Polaris tech about what this problem might be but said he was not going to give him the VIN becasue he didnt want to trigger anything. He said he would have an answer for me this morning. 1pm rolls around and no word, at this point I am just fed up. So I call Polaris support and they were real nice and told them I stated above. They said there was no claim lately on the sled and they would call the dealer. So about an hour later the gal calls me back and said she talked to them, then told me how she thought it was funny because right before she called me back a claim went into Polaris...so I though ok great they will strat working on it and no big deal. Well about 15 mins after that I get a call from the dealer all peed off how I went to Polaris and states he told me he was going to claim it! After arguing for 3 days and him telling me he will call a Tech but not to get my hopes up and now he is pissed at me. But it gets better, he then tells me to come pick my sled up and that he wants it out of his shop!

So this obviously solidifies that there was more going on here, so anyway I picked up my sled. I guess I will take it to another dealer! I am just baffled on how this went, not really sure what the dealer expects me to think when something like that happens.

Anyway I got to say this has been my most interesting dealer experience yet. I have tried to be reasobnable and kept it to myself, sure is tempting to state their name and start bashing, but we both know that doesnt go anywhere. Hopefully I have better luck elsewhere!

 

[harf69]

I'd like to know what dealer it is so I don't take stuff there and get poor service. I don't believe your bashing u explained your problem u explained how they handled by telling us your helping us make a better informed decision. That's how I see it

 

[Arcteryx]

Ya, I'd like to know who the dealer is too. I don't believe you bashed anyone. Just told your story. I think it's good for people to know.

 

[Brutis20]

I know, the thing is, and I am just being honest, is that I had pretty good luck with them before. If anyone in north western canada has had the same dealing or is concerned they can send me a pm. Otherwise I am not comfortable with making it public. Maybe I am being too nice. I guess we will see what Polaris support will say about this!

I am not sure if something changed from 2012 at the dealer because they did go on for a rant about the 2013's causing them so much problems and Polaris wasnt making it easy for them. I feel for them but really not my problem.

Anyway if anyone has anymore insight or a real good dealer in AB/BC let me know.

 

[Devilmanak]

Its a head gasket leak and tell them to show you the old one from when they took the head off to check it . I'd say it was a leaking head to start with I had one that did that same thing.

Sounds real familiar. Bud had a 09 Dragon, burned down, replaced engine under warranty. He couldn't figure out why the engine kept eating coolant, we thought it needed burping, the level just slowly went down all the time. At about 300 miles, it suddenly sucked coolant bad and was obvious there was a problem. Took it to dealer, they said it had a pinched head oring. Fixed it, the sled dropped a cylinder skirt 200 miles later, on the trail at 25mph with his wife riding. (I was there.) They didn't want to cover it, Polaris Star said they had just installed a new engine, weren't going to cover it again. Now here is where it gets intersting/confusing:
1) I was told by someone who I won't name but would know, that somewhere during last season, the engine replacement preocedure for these engines changed. Dealers USED to build the engines in house for warranty replacement, NOW they get prebuilt crate engines.
2) The head o-ring was pinched, I REALLY don't see the Polaris factory pinching a whole lot of o-rings during engine asembly.
3) The whole process for this took a lot of BS, a lot of time, some hinting at lawsuits, etc. My take on it was that the dealer screwed up when building the engine, Polaristar had every right to NOT pay for a second engine, but someone somewhere DID pay for it eventually. The dealer refused to install it under "warranty" so my bud took his sled and new (this one WAS a crate engine) in parts. When we walked out with the engine and sled, it was made clear that this sled had ZERO warranty left and to not bring it back, basically.
Make up your own mind, but I think that when dealing with tempermental Poo engines, they NEED to be built right to begin with!

 

[just-pinch-it]

Generally speaking you can smell antifreeze in the exhaust when it's a engine leak. When I do cooling system work I always verify that the water pump is actually pumping. You can feel the temp go up on the heat exchangers as soon as the thermostat opens. If you don't soon feel heat it's not pumping. It will then pump out coolant out the overflow. Air pockets don’t usually cause much of a problem, other than making it so you may have to top off the coolant bottle a time or two.

Like the water pump issue. If it took the crank, maybe the pump got it too and they didn't catch it. When you told them about the coolant dropping they should have had you take it back in.