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2012 M8 Push turbo low throttle mid RPM stumble HELP!

SuperchargedWS6

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Has anyone ran into this with a race gas push turbo kit?

Between 4500rpm and 6000rpm, if I hold a steady light throttle, say 1/4 throttle, the sled cruises for a second or two, then dies almost like someone hit the kill switch. During this time, the AFR goes very lean. Before it completely dies, it picks back up, runs normal for a second, and then dies again. This cycle of AFR going normal (14.5:1) and then very lean keeps repeating itself until I give it more gas or let off the throttle. The sled idles fine, and anything outside of that 1/4 throttle, 4500 to 6000rpm range, it runs perfectly.

Things I have done:

1. It was doing this with the old fuel controller (power commander V, with the aux injector powercommander box). I could not tune this lean/rich steady cruise out.
2. I changed the fuel controller to a 3D race gas boondocker box. Sled runs 100% better everywhere else (than it did with the powercommander), but still dies suddenly at cruise and goes very lean, then going into the cycle described above.
3. I have replaced the TPS, thinking that the old TPS may have a "dead" spot.
4. I have set the new TPS to .69V at idle. I have tried other TPS settings, as low as .5v and as high as .8V and it did not have any affect on the issue, just made the sled run crappy everywhere else.
5. I have disconnected the throttle microswitch, thinking at light throttle, the switch may have been flickering between on and off, causing it to have the issues it is having. This made no difference.
6. Fuel pressure is 39psi at idle. It is the factory push electronic fuel pressure box. The fuel pressure gauge is under the hood, so I cannot see what the fuel is doing when the sled is having this issue.
7. I did a Compression ratio test and both cylinders are identical and well within factory specs.
8. I was told that an overly rich situation with tons of unburned fuel could cause the AFR to read lean, so I tried leaning out the midrange on the boondocker box. It ran much worse.
9. I currently have the 5000rpm and the 6800rpm settings on the boondocker box for the low and mid throttle positions set at +15. It makes the situation a bit better, but it is still very much there. Plus, I can tell it is rich as it gets boggy in the midrange with these settings.

It runs so good everywhere except this one spot, that I can't see it being anything serious, or things like reeds, fuel pump, ECU, etc.

I am at a complete loss, trying everything and replacing everything that I could think of that would fix this problem.

Anyone every see anything like this before? Anyone have any other suggestions?

I snapped my jackshaft in Revy last week 1hr into the ride and ended up renting a Doo and a Poo. I liked the doo so much that if I can't get this fixed, I'm selling it for a doo. So please help before I move over to the dark side :)
 
Kevin (Mm sports) on here I believe has run the Push with BD box. He would be a good guy to call.
 
Kevin is who I bought the box off of. He has helped me some. Since the sled did this with both the Boondocker box and the pcv, I don't think it is a box or tuning
 
hook up a nitrous button & "capture" the event when it happens.

If you already have it captured, what were the fueling adjustments when it happened?
what is your boost level when this happens?
what is your CR setting?
what altitude are you riding at?
 
Have you checked your power valves to see if they are adjusted properly, clean, working right. 45-6000 is probably when it starts to build boost. Have you tried to adjust your boost transfer fuel. Might even be clutching. Loading the motor a little hard at the mid range.
 
I don't have the capture button hooked up and didn't leave the wires very accessible. I will have to go back and do that.

Boost level is just below 0 when this happens.

CR setting is 21.

I am riding at 1800ft right now, but have had it in the mountains at 6000-8000ft and does exactly the same thing.

I had a theory that with the push turbo, it spools very fast and under these constant 5000-6000rpm conditions, the turbo starts to spin faster, not adding boost, but more complete cylinder fill than if there was not turbo, thus causing the constant cruise being OK for a second or two, then going lean and almost stalling. The rpms drop, the turbo spools down, the sled picks up, and then it happens all over again. Since the sled ECU only senses throttle position, it would not be able to tell more air is going into the engine due to the turbo, for any given throttle position, thus the lean.

To test this I:

1. removed the wastgate spring so there is no boost being built.
2. tried adding fuel to the PSIL (up to 5psi) and the low column (up to 1/3 throttle position), so as the sled starts to transition from vacuum to boost, more fuel gets added.

Neither of these helped.

It is a very drastic lean, it steps from AFRS of 14 to 16 to 18 and then off scale in a matter of a second or two. When it goes off scale it dies, as the rpms drop, it picks back up, or, if I bring on more throttle, it picks back up and runs fine. If I cruise at anything more than 1/4 throttle, it cruises fine at an afr of 14.5:1 or so. It is only this one spot.

It is so drastic, that I now do not believe that it could be a fuelling issue due to a little more air being pushed into the engine vs. stock at light throttle positions.

However, I am at a complete loss on what could even cause this. Because it runs fine everywhere else, the primary and secondary injectors are functioning, the ECU is likely oK and it is not throwing any codes, the Boondocker box is OK, new TPS sensor (which can have a major affect on fuelling) and it is set perfectly, plugs have to be OK because it runs good, it idles fine, so reeds have to be OK.

That really does not leave too many other things, except maybe the fuel pump and the electronic fuel pressure regulator that the push system uses. Even then, this is under light load with very little fuel requirements, and everything works great under high load.
 
It does this under low load before the clutches shift out and then at the same rpm under higher load after the clutches have shifted, so it does not appear to be load dependent. It is more pronounced with load on the engine.

This is likely where boost starts to build, but it is at such low throttle position, the boost gauge is not in boost yet. I did try modifying the PSIL for low and mid throttle positions with no affect.

I have not confirmed power valves, but the sled pulls and sounds very healthy under higher throttle positions which leads me to believe the power valves are functioning correctly.

Sled only has 550kms on it, about 1/2 of that turbo'd.

Have you checked your power valves to see if they are adjusted properly, clean, working right. 45-6000 is probably when it starts to build boost. Have you tried to adjust your boost transfer fuel. Might even be clutching. Loading the motor a little hard at the mid range.
 
confused

can you ride it? or do you always ride at that rpm? Seam that you are looking for it if you just ride it does it stumble?

I have had a sled that one time would not run at wide open throttle. The sled ran real good until I would pin it. ended being a bad wire harnesses.
 
Trust me I am not looking for it. I can ride it in the prairies and live with the stumble. In the mountains in the technical stuff, even trying to ride around it, if I hit the stumble I'm either over the bars in the powder when it dies, or into a tree when it picks up again.

Try challenging sidehilling with a sled that dies and when you give it a bit more throttle, it takes off like a rocket!
 
OK, a picture is worth a thousand words (I realized i've typed 1000 already!).

Tonight I put it up on a stand and video taped what it is doing, as to maybe better describe the problem.With it on a stand, I could watch everything and this is what I observed:

1. The exhaust valves are opening properly. They open to mid point under mid throttle and full open under heavy throttle. The valves cycle ones under the first application of throttle and not 3 times, no error codes. Plus, the throttle this happens under is no where near the trigger point for the exhaust valves.

2. The fuel pressure holds stead at 40psi when this is happening.

3. I put the boondocker box in monitor mode, so you can see all the parameters. Commanded duty cycle is 12 and 13 and adjusted duty cycle is about 1 cycle higher. The big thing here is that the commanded duty cycle stays constant, even though the sled is going normal afr and lean afr. This should not be happening under a constant duty cycle, it should be getting an even amount of fuel and not going lean. Boondocker box shows it is always in vacuum when this is happening.

Here are the videos. One is of the AFR gauge and dash showing RPM and the other is over the boondocker box in stats mode. The videos are shot with a constant maybe 1/8th throttle, since there is no load on the engine to achieve the 5000rpm problem area. Although you can hear the sled cycling in RPM, I am holding a constant throttle. The cycling is due to the sled going normal AFR/lean AFR/normal AFR.

AFR gauge/Dash RPM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bleZaqdqXy8

Boondocker box in Stats Mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLDLJmmiKdc
 
mine is a push turbo on a 2010 HCR, acted a lot like yours. After replacing 1 piston,rings,stator,new plug wires and CCU. I found my power valve cables were out of adjustment. They were working right, but out of adjustment about 3/16 of an inch.. Easy to check. Dave:face-icon-small-coo
 
I had a similar issue with a M6 that had got an M8 engine into it.
What I found then was that it was ignition that acted up.
Have you checked anything around your ignition? You are sure you have coils assigned to PTO and MAG as from factory?
I am not 100% sure it makes a different, but if you look at the coil connectors, they are different colors for each set of two coils.
If all 4 coils fires at the same, it should not be a reason to have different colors.

Just a thought.
 
Does your Push kit have the single throttle body before the turbo?

The reason, I ask is that my single throttle body setup(not push) acted very similarly until, I had the fueling box reprogrammed to transistion fuel for the extra air at part throttle.

Either way.......

I would certainly put your fuel gauge where you can see it. It verifies so much. It's like having three gauges in one...good voltage, good boost/regulator, and of course base line fuel pressure.

Good luck...keep us updated!
 
Check how much fuel your getting under both low and high load settings! Also check fuel at RPM intervals!
 
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