2009 XP Clutching Resolved ??

[RideGuy]

Greetings

I guess I'm wondering what is going to be any different with the XP clutching from the last couple years......???

07's were a nightmare I.M.O.

08's seemed like the same bad dream......

What have they done for 09 that makes people think the clutching willl be any better??

I really do like the XP and think I may be a smurf because I saw the blue one in the shop the other day and think it will look just Smurfy on the snow!!!!

But I've already bought one lemon when I bought my first sled and it took me thousands of dollars to make it run right......

I can't help but think it's all a heat issue with the XP's.... and Venting should fix the premature wear......???

I'm ready for a nice new sled with warranty and the XP is hard to beat when you stack them up against each other...... My other choices would be a pump gas turbo dragon (loose warranty and I"ve been on an IQ since 05) Or a Pump gas or Propane Nytro ( which is still really heavy and again loose warranty)

I'm just a little paranoid about 50th year anniversery sleds and first year sleds..... I know the XP is a second year sled and warranty can fix them clutch's for one year.... but after that do I really have to trade it in to avoid the clutching nightmare??


T.I.A.

 

[Wyoming T/A]

the clutching is suppose to be fixed for 09--the 08 wasnt that bad on clutching BUT the motor alignment issues and too long a belt did eat belts and create a lot of excess heat in the clutches--after the motor was realigned and the new belts were installed we had no issues with belts

 

[winter brew]

Settups was 90% of the problem on '07 and '08. There were also bushing, roller and alignment issues. All are easily fixed.

 

[madmax]

Like WyoT/A said the XP clutching wasnt that bad. It was mostly the belt which has been fixed and clutch aliagnment. Clutch alignment should be checked and adjusted on any new sled. I went through about 6 belts in the first 300. After clutch alaignment and the new belt over 500 miles on one belt and that belt is still on and looks brand new.

 

[RideGuy]

I understand Setup is the key.....

I put a diamond drive in my 05 RMK900 so I understand what someone has to go through to get aligned etc.... And I've gone through belts O'Plenty untill I got my set up aligned and vented.... But I never had to replace bushings every two months like my friends..... And I can get a whole riding season on one belt if I wasn't so picky about belt width and performance.... I usually go through only 2/ year and I ride alot opposed to 2/ ride like when I did the diamond drive mod and my offset and alignment were $%^&*....

Granted the 0046 Kevlar Belts on the Cat are awsome and cheap at 100/belt compared to doo and poo..... But I didn't see a Cat that impressed me last year...... and with their 22 pound weight reduction because they went back to the old case and a couple other things isn't quite enough to get me onboard with Cat....

It was the dealer that told me their set up was changed.... I have to believe that it's the enclosure that isn't vented enough in conjuction with poor allignment that creates the premature wear on clutch's and belts..... Just changing to a new belt doesn't give me any assurance.... And I've heard the O'l Story it's a bad run of belts... bla bla bla

Clutch's need to run cool I.M.O. and I don't see how Doo will resolve their clutching issues untill they can run cooler.....

I know the XP's run great when the clutch's are fresh.... From what I saw last year they are the best sled on the mountain.....

I'm just having a hard time jumping ship especially now that I have my sled dialed in... But mine is getting older and I find myself wrenching as much as I ride these day's and it's time to retire the O'l Mod to a Back up Sled..... Thus my desire for warranty.....

I'm just having a hard time picking my poison ..... I"d like to go to Doo but I need a bit more reassurance before pulling the trigger.....

 

[Racegun]

Just Doo it!

Just Doo it!

 

[Dock]

so what is the final thought on this, NO ISSUES AT ALL THIS YEAR?

I don't think so, i think that there will still be problems, just my thought.

 

[tpollon2]

The 2009 800 Summits have a 43/47 Cam helix. The 08"s were 47/43. Does anyone know if the Shockwaves are variable ramps?

 

[RideGuy]

The Shallower angle I assume will help keep the temps down a bit at engagement I guess and make it nice for backshifting when the R's drop off.... and the Steepness of the secondary angle once it's shifting shouldn't be a problem heat wise... if it can hold the RPM's then sounds like a peppy set up......

If it can't hold the RPM...... Nitrous would be the answer..... Those Doo's seem to love the laughing gas.....

Has anybody ever notice how much oil is on the Primary from the factory.....??? I'm assuming this is to prevent corrosion...... I have to wonder how many dealerships clean the clutch's before they send them out?? The 09 I looked at the other day had oil dripping from the primary..... Could you imagine your first ride.....????

 

[Wyoming T/A]

The 2009 800 Summits have a 43/47 Cam helix. The 08"s were 47/43. Does anyone know if the Shockwaves are variable ramps?

not yet from what i heard last week

 

[quickdraw]

Greetings

I guess I'm wondering what is going to be any different with the XP clutching from the last couple years......???

What have they done for 09 that makes people think the clutching willl be any better??

I can't help but think it's all a heat issue with the XP's.... and Venting should fix the premature wear......???

T.I.A.

There were several thgings going on with last years XP that caused problems. First and foremost was the the motor/primary clutch didn't have adjustability for alignment and many not all came from the factory way out of alignment. This caused excess deflection in the belt which either caused a bind or slippage which generated a ton of heat which burnt belts galore. Second the belt was too long and narrow which limited adjustability and caused more slippage and in turn more heat. Third because of all of this heat belts were shredding and the internal components of the clutchs were breaking down and seizing. And the gearing was off to futher compound the issues.

On my 08 and many others the alignment wasn't that far off but still not right. It was performing but not to it's potential. So First I moved the bushing on the jackshaft 1/4" to align the primary and secondary, deflection on the button. Second change to the 377 belt which is shorter and wider that gives me a wider range of adjustment and wear (although I ran on a single 166 belt all season and it was still in great shape). Third I went to DJ's clutch kit which was more efficient on it's shifting. And a a combination of these changes the clutchs grabbed the belt better, less slippage = less heat = less wear.

Now that I stated the obvious these are the similar steps that BRP took this year in a different way. First: new motor mounts that are adjustable so alignement between the clutchs can "setup". Second the 377 belt that is wider and shorter to allow more adjustability. Third new internal compoments to put more pressure on the belts through the operating range and more efficient shifting.

Will these upgrades fix "all" of the problems? I don't know and neither does anyone else until the snow starts to fly. You are going to keep you current sled as a backup anyway so wait until December and the 09's are on the snow. We will all know by then and you can make an informed decision. I personally have faith and if it isn't the way I like it a quick call to DJ and a little setup will take care of that. My 08 was very nice all season.

 

[RideGuy]

There were several thgings going on with last years XP that caused problems. First and foremost was the the motor/primary clutch didn't have adjustability for alignment and many not all came from the factory way out of alignment. This caused excess deflection in the belt which either caused a bind or slippage which generated a ton of heat which burnt belts galore. Second the belt was too long and narrow which limited adjustability and caused more slippage and in turn more heat. Third because of all of this heat belts were shredding and the internal components of the clutchs were breaking down and seizing. And the gearing was off to futher compound the issues.

On my 08 and many others the alignment wasn't that far off but still not right. It was performing but not to it's potential. So First I moved the bushing on the jackshaft 1/4" to align the primary and secondary, deflection on the button. Second change to the 377 belt which is shorter and wider that gives me a wider range of adjustment and wear (although I ran on a single 166 belt all season and it was still in great shape). Third I went to DJ's clutch kit which was more efficient on it's shifting. And a a combination of these changes the clutchs grabbed the belt better, less slippage = less heat = less wear.

Now that I stated the obvious these are the similar steps that BRP took this year in a different way. First: new motor mounts that are adjustable so alignement between the clutchs can "setup". Second the 377 belt that is wider and shorter to allow more adjustability. Third new internal compoments to put more pressure on the belts through the operating range and more efficient shifting.

Will these upgrades fix "all" of the problems? I don't know and neither does anyone else until the snow starts to fly. You are going to keep you current sled as a backup anyway so wait until December and the 09's are on the snow. We will all know by then and you can make an informed decision. I personally have faith and if it isn't the way I like it a quick call to DJ and a little setup will take care of that. My 08 was very nice all season.

Thankyou for the XP 101


I understand belt slippage is a huge heat generator and I know understand why there were so many issues when you add them all up....... every little bit counts I.M.O.

Adjustable motor mounts make me think of pro's and con's right off the bat... Hope that works out...

I think I"m going to have to take your advise since I never did a snow check on anything and throw my leg over another them all again this year.....

It's just so hard to ignore the XP's light weight Chasis... Especially when you are looking at the appx.. value of 100$/Pound when it comes to weight reduction.... Say's to me it would take alot of parts,labour, and cash to get any of the other sled's on par with a stock XP..... And that's before you put an XP on a diet.... Granted there isn't alot of things I can see to shed weight on other than a can, seat, and what I see in the mirror... LOL

 

[quickdraw]

If you rode my 08 and felt how good it was with just a little setup then you like I would have good feelings about the 09. It's only a little more than a month before guys like Wyoming TA will be on the snow and then we will start getting the 411 on the 09's. You may still be able to find an X model in Nov./Dec. if that's your preference and if not there will be plenty of Everests around. This is going to be a great year.

 

[MT boondocker]

The 2009 800 Summits have a 43/47 Cam helix. The 08"s were 47/43. Does anyone know if the Shockwaves are variable ramps?

The 08 XP's cam/helix was a 42, should be interesting to see how the new cam/helix works in the 09's.

 

[Idahodoo]

The 08 XP's cam/helix was a 42, should be interesting to see how the new cam/helix works in the 09's.

The dealer also told me the 09s have a new ramp design, bushing material in the rollers & different spring in the primary. He told me they will warranty the new rollers on my 08 XP, but not the rest of the updates, said BRP admitted having clutch set up issues, so they lowered the cost of the updated 09 clutch parts 33%. Have to see how the new Xp clutch set up works

 

[madmax]

Seems like they changed every part of the clutching for 09,, rollers, pri. spring, ramps and helix. The only part I havent heard is changed is the sec. spring. If the clutches come aligned from the factory and with the new clutching and 377 belt, the 09 should scream.

 

[Tuesday]

The 2009 800 Summits have a 43/47 Cam helix. The 08"s were 47/43. Does anyone know if the Shockwaves are variable ramps?

That just seems all wrong? So on a step climb its going to be upshifting to a higher gear. Wonder if they have changed the ramps in the primary bc that helix ratio seems whacky?

 

[steveo10]

Sucks starting from scratch again instead of tweakin! Maybe overhaulin is the way?

 

[Ron]

I understand Setup is the key.....

I put a diamond drive in my 05 RMK900 so I understand what someone has to go through to get aligned etc.... And I've gone through belts O'Plenty untill I got my set up aligned and vented.... But I never had to replace bushings every two months like my friends..... And I can get a whole riding season on one belt if I wasn't so picky about belt width and performance.... I usually go through only 2/ year and I ride alot opposed to 2/ ride like when I did the diamond drive mod and my offset and alignment were $%^&*....

Granted the 0046 Kevlar Belts on the Cat are awsome and cheap at 100/belt compared to doo and poo..... But I didn't see a Cat that impressed me last year...... and with their 22 pound weight reduction because they went back to the old case and a couple other things isn't quite enough to get me onboard with Cat....

It was the dealer that told me their set up was changed.... I have to believe that it's the enclosure that isn't vented enough in conjuction with poor allignment that creates the premature wear on clutch's and belts..... Just changing to a new belt doesn't give me any assurance.... And I've heard the O'l Story it's a bad run of belts... bla bla bla

Clutch's need to run cool I.M.O. and I don't see how Doo will resolve their clutching issues untill they can run cooler.....

I know the XP's run great when the clutch's are fresh.... From what I saw last year they are the best sled on the mountain.....

I'm just having a hard time jumping ship especially now that I have my sled dialed in... But mine is getting older and I find myself wrenching as much as I ride these day's and it's time to retire the O'l Mod to a Back up Sled..... Thus my desire for warranty.....

I'm just having a hard time picking my poison ..... I"d like to go to Doo but I need a bit more reassurance before pulling the trigger.....[/quote]

Go to each forum & put it up for a vote...then you are sure to get the best sled, ha ha. You can't be serious...ask next year about the 09's then you may get some info of value. And good venting will only lower clutch temps max of 10-15 degrees.

 

[RideGuy]

I understand Setup is the key.....

I put a diamond drive in my 05 RMK900 so I understand what someone has to go through to get aligned etc.... And I've gone through belts O'Plenty untill I got my set up aligned and vented.... But I never had to replace bushings every two months like my friends..... And I can get a whole riding season on one belt if I wasn't so picky about belt width and performance.... I usually go through only 2/ year and I ride alot opposed to 2/ ride like when I did the diamond drive mod and my offset and alignment were $%^&*....

Granted the 0046 Kevlar Belts on the Cat are awsome and cheap at 100/belt compared to doo and poo..... But I didn't see a Cat that impressed me last year...... and with their 22 pound weight reduction because they went back to the old case and a couple other things isn't quite enough to get me onboard with Cat....

It was the dealer that told me their set up was changed.... I have to believe that it's the enclosure that isn't vented enough in conjuction with poor allignment that creates the premature wear on clutch's and belts..... Just changing to a new belt doesn't give me any assurance.... And I've heard the O'l Story it's a bad run of belts... bla bla bla

Clutch's need to run cool I.M.O. and I don't see how Doo will resolve their clutching issues untill they can run cooler.....

I know the XP's run great when the clutch's are fresh.... From what I saw last year they are the best sled on the mountain.....

I'm just having a hard time jumping ship especially now that I have my sled dialed in... But mine is getting older and I find myself wrenching as much as I ride these day's and it's time to retire the O'l Mod to a Back up Sled..... Thus my desire for warranty.....

I'm just having a hard time picking my poison ..... I"d like to go to Doo but I need a bit more reassurance before pulling the trigger.....[/quote]

Go to each forum & put it up for a vote...then you are sure to get the best sled, ha ha. You can't be serious...ask next year about the 09's then you may get some info of value. And good venting will only lower clutch temps max of 10-15 degrees.

??? Why would I go to every forum and ask??? Are you serious....????

I just wanted good information about a sled I was interested in and if you noticed once all of the issues were explained I didn't bother posting anymore....... Obviously I'm not sold on the changes.... But atleast somebody with something valuable contributed and answered my question.

I have vents in my sled and like I said earlier.... Every little bit counts when you want your sled to run to it's maximum potential.....

What was your point exactly??