2 stroke vs 4 stroke

[powder Head]

I got this quote from a person on a boat forum I'm a member of. He had the oportunity to sit in on a meeting of dealers of a major boat manufacturer that is going through Chapter 11. They were discussing some of the future plans of which the quote below was one item discussed.

"I was also a bit suprised by the news that there will be a push to go back to a lower cost 2-cycle Outboard. From what they were saying, the new EPA rules (pollution controls) are actually favoring the newer 2-cycle engines with computer controled fuel injection and ignition over the heavier 4-cycle outboards. The 2-cycle wins hands down when it comes to HP vs. weight and maintenance. They had a lot of charts and such but the bottom line is they see about a 20% lower cost of purchase/ownership for the average boater."

So my question, why boats and not snowmobiles? Why are snowmobiles trying to go in the other direction?

Is it time for popcorn?

 

[sledneckme]

I dont believe that snowmobiles are heading down the 4 stroke path. Well yeah the companies each do make their batch of 4 strokes but the majority of the snowmobile line up is 2 stroke. And yes, with this new technology the 2 strokes are still able to go strong with fuel ecomony and everything. But a few years ago it did look like snowmobiiles were going 4 stroke because of emissions. but now with this technology the 2 strokes can be just as good as 4 strokes in that part. But i believe companies will always make 2 stroke sleds, and 4 stroke sleds.

 

[AndrettiDog]

What's more amazing to me is that the motocross world was able to make 4-stroke motors light enough and comporable to the 2-stroke class they ran in. I really do like Yamaha products and think highly of them, but I will never go that route in snowmobiles until they lighten up the front end and run with the other smokers.

 

[NoSecondChances]

Someone please kill me now before this topic goes down the same path as every 2S vs 4S thread that has ever existed on SW.

NSC

 

[Climbmax]

Because of long term reliability and durability.
If 2 strokes are so great why didn't one company put them in the spyder, cam am, sea doo products.
Consumers vote with their money....nothing else.
Cheers
RS

 

[XXL]

someone please kill me now before this topic goes down the same path as every 2s vs 4s thread that has ever existed on sw.

Nsc

"bang"

 

[Snorider]

NSC I seem to be low on ammo,

Not sure its worth the bullet


Lmao

 

[Snorider]

I'm not quite sure it was the consumers pushing towards 4 stroke, pretty sure it was more along the lines of enviro freaks

 

[PJ-Hunter]

4 strokes are not taking over snowmobiling. Out of the 4 major manufacturers, only one makes 4-strokes solely. The other three are dabbling in it but are still spending the majority of their R&D costs on the 2 stroke because of that very reason. The motors are lighter, stronger and cheaper to maintain and rebuild. With some excellent and dedicated research companies can make a 2-stroke burn cleaner and quieter without sacrificing power. I am by no means a 4-stroke expert but from what I have seen it takes many parts and many dollars to make a real "Hill Killer" out of a 4-stroke. Please do not mis-interpret my opinion as bashing the thumpers, cause it is not. I have nothing against Yammie for making the switch and it is doing well for them.

The thumper is taking over in the MX world because that is what every racer wants. The power band is more broad and easier to ride on the track. But I have seen a very well tuned 250cc 2-stroke and a good rider smoke a 450cc several times. Another fact as to why the 4-stroke MXrs are successful is that nearly ALL manufacturers have turned to building only 4-strokes. Correct me if I am wrong, but there are only 2 companies that still build 2-strokes without them having to be special ordered. I believe those to be KTM and GasGas. Go figure, they are built in the Eastern Block where guys live and breathe motorcycles, both street and dirt.

 

[christopher]

When it comes to high performance 2 stroke outboards, this is what we saw the most of down in Havasu.

But...
While these 2 strokes have their place, at only 300 horsepower, when it comes to POWER they simply can not compete with their 4 stroke siblings.

The Mercury Marine high performance

HP525 EFI
HP600 SCi
EU662 SCi <LI class=leftNavOn>HP700 SCi
HP850 SCi
HP1025 SCi
HP1075 SCi
HP1200 SCi

All blow this engine right out of the water.

Coming from a background of boat manufacturing down in Lake Havasu Arizona, there are only a VERY small few who choose to put these outboards on their boats. And often times it had to do with SOUND, LOOKS/STYLE, and some specific needs to change the center of balance on the boat by shifting the weight as far to the rear as possible.

Now, given all that, the 2 strokes will nail the Hole Shot every time. They EXPLODE off the starting line, while the 4 strokes take a couple seconds to come up to power. But once they are spun up, there is no contest any more.

But unlike sleds, boats can afford both the Size and the Weight of the 4 stroke motors to make huge amounts of power to overcome the massive drag of the water.

 

[polaris dude]

personally, i would rather have a 4stroke, because they are much cheaper to run(better mileage, not burning oil, low maintenance ect.) but they cost much more than 2strokes to buy, and as a young sleder that extra money up front was too much for me.

 

[M.M. 700]

The sled companies will build what they think we will buy.

Yamaha thought the 4 strokes would be the ticket.

The other 3 sat and watched(while refining there 2 strokes) Yamaha and how their sale's did, then seen a market for 4 strokes. SO they built some 4 strokes.



If the large majority of mountain sledders would go buy Yamaha 4 strokes, the other 3 would push to put out a mountain 4 stroke.

just my 2 cents....

 

[JOP]

Who Cares!!! 4 strokes Turbo better...

 

[adrenaline junkey]

I have also heard that some are having issues with the 4stoke 450 bikes mainly the valve train but then again this was a 2 stoke buddy but for the water I love my Honda so quiet you can hear the water its discharging from the cooling system why trolling also great fuel economy and it hasn't missed a beat sense i bought it 4 stokes would be the ticket if they could get the weight down a bit

 

[DenverR1]

Someone please kill me now before this topic goes down the same path as every 2S vs 4S thread that has ever existed on SW.

NSC

Or you could just skip over this thread and click on one that you like.

 

[eddy]

2T vs 4T

Rotax is still committed to 2T

 

[RMKcowboy]

The thumper is taking over in the MX world because that is what every racer wants. The power band is more broad and easier to ride on the track. But I have seen a very well tuned 250cc 2-stroke and a good rider smoke a 450cc several times... Correct me if I am wrong, but there are only 2 companies that still build 2-strokes without them having to be special ordered. I believe those to be KTM and GasGas.

Yamaha is still selling the YZ 250 smoker as of this year, no word on 2010 yet that I've heard.

I have also heard that some are having issues with the 4stoke 450 bikes mainly the valve train but then again this was a 2 stoke buddy

The first run of the Honda's had some valve problems that were fixed on later models. No valve issues with Yammies. Can't speak for Suzuki or Kawi, don't pay much attention to those brands KTM I haven't heard any complaints.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The moto bikes run a very high compression ratio that a sled can't because there would be more load on the motor and create pre detonation, so they have to detune the motor, yami targets flatlanders thus the 4 stoke world and a 4 stoke will run on the flats with a 2. Its only in the steep and deep where weight plays a factor and a 4 will never compete like a 2. until 07 4 where making a hell of a run at the hills with a turbo, but now that the 2 stoke turbo has been perfected everyone is starting to go back to the 2, exept the flatlanders.