07 m8 slp pipe....still kind of a dog,Now what?

[I_boondock]

I will offer my opinion based on my experience having had 1 or 2 New M8's every year since they came out..

1) The 07 M8 makes slightly less power (about 3 HP) than the 08 or 09 M8.. BUT the performance difference on the hill is HUGE when comparing the 07 with the 08 or the 09.. WHY?? IMHO, it is in the diamond drive.. I suspect the there is major HP robbing in this piece in 07 ONLY.. Why do I say this?? Well. because we have these sleds every year.. For example.. We could mod the 07 M8 (in 2007) with head and porting and absolutely destroy stock 07 M8's in all manners.. Now enter 2008.. This same modded 07 M8 will barely out perform a STOCK M8..Keep in mind this 07 Mod M8 (and we did MANY) will destroy other 07 M8's but will pale in comparision to the STOCK 08 M8.. OK, I started an investigation... Cat says, they changed the ECU programming... So, since we had an 07 M8 and a 08 M8 at the same time... we swapped ECU's NO difference in performance with either sled.. the 08 with the 07 box still ran like it did before and the 07 with the 08 Box still ran the same. NOT THE ECU... So, change the pipe and Y pipe between the 2.. NO difference.. NOT THE PIPE EITHER!!

At this point.. we ran out of time and desire to truely determine what the culprit really was.. But the 07 M8 will not pull hard.. It ALWAYS feels likeit has the brakes on.. So, I suspect gear mesh in the DD, or some sort of drag in the DD or the shafts..

2) Install the mod 07 M8 cylinders on the 08 M8 and the 08 M8 gains major power... just like the 07 M8.. So, now the 07 M8 is really left in the snow dust...

3) Clutching helps but the 07 will still never pull like an 800 should... But clutching an 07 M8 will make up the gap with the 08 or 09 M8.

Bottom line is: CAT willnot tell us where the "hold back" lies on the 07 M8. They claim it to be the ECU and pipe but we have proven otherwise.. You can definitely feel the "resistence" on the 07 M8 that is causing it to not perform to its potential.. This resistence is not present onthe 08 M8 nor the 09 M8.. Go figure..

Side note: the 07 M10 is better than the 08 M10 IMHO.. so one has to believe that the 07 M8 isuse is not in the rear skid..

So,that is my experience with it.. I suggest not spending too much time or $$$ on the 07 M8 because it will always be inferior to the other 800's (and 700's) Now if you are in a group of only 07 M8's like I said, you can get it to run MUCH better than the other 07 M8's but never as good asa the 08 or 09 M8's

I am not trying to "dog" the 07 M8's in any way shape or form.. BUT, the fact remains.. that they had a FACTORY issue that robs performance and Cat has managed to keep that "issue" hidden to this day.. You can thorw mod after mod to the 07 M8 and it will get better but it will still not perform like the 08 or 09's. So, adding a pipe or pipes to this sled will add performance.. BUT add the same pipe or pipes to the 08 or 09 M8 and the gap increases... It is very frustrating...

Kelsey

You swapped ECUs, pipes, y-pipes, and cylinders. Did you swap diamond drives to test your theory?

 

[RKT]

You swapped ECUs, pipes, y-pipes, and cylinders. Did you swap diamond drives to test your theory?

Nope.. That is whay it remains a theory vs. a fact.. I can tell you for a FACT that it is not the ECU, pipe, Y pipe, or cylinders.. But that is all I know for a fact...

Like I said, you can get the 07 M8 to slaughter other 07 M8's but it has a hard time with the 08's and especially the 09's

Kelsey

 

[garciava]

Kelsey
Thanks for your well written theory on the different sleds.
Here’s my real world experience riding 9500’ to 11000’ in deep snow and some very hard pulls

I have both sleds. A 07 M8 153 and 09 M8 162.
The 07 with a 153 has the RKT head, RKT porting and RKT secondary clutch set up per Kelsey’s recommendations for my riding conditions. I installed all this at the beginning of last season with very disappointing results. The poor results turned out to be a bad primary clutch which was replaced before this year’s riding season. What a difference this made in performance
The 09 with the 162 has the SLP pipe set up and a shift assist bearing in the secondary
Side by side comparisons is very close if you consider the 09 with the 162 has the power claw track. I believe if I put a power claw on the 07 M8 that has the RKT set up it would run right with the 09 M8 with the SLP set up. The 07 with the RKT secondary kit shifts so much quicker that you can actually feel the difference between the two
My conclusion to this is Kelsey ‘s products can make a 07 run with a 09.
I am sure both sleds could still run better with some more tweeking but I am happy with the way both sleds run

 

[I_boondock]

Interesting

Nope.. That is whay it remains a theory vs. a fact.. I can tell you for a FACT that it is not the ECU, pipe, Y pipe, or cylinders.. But that is all I know for a fact...

Like I said, you can get the 07 M8 to slaughter other 07 M8's but it has a hard time with the 08's and especially the 09's

Kelsey

I grenaded a drive last New Years on my 07' M8. Replaced with a complete drive with an Aug 2007 build date. It did seem to roll a bit easier, not a huge difference but enough to notice it on the first ride. I figured the old one had been going for awhile and that's why the new one felt good.

That drive failed a month or so ago. No noticeable performance difference with the new drive.

That drive failed two weeks ago. Replaced with an 09' drive. No noticeable performance difference with the new drive.

Would be interesting to see repeatable results from someone doing a swap with a newer drive on an 07'. Should be pretty easy to do if someone has access to the drives.

 

[zr600]

I don't know if it would be in the reverse, because the 07 and 08 have the same style of reverse not? Didn't go to the electronic reverse till 09 right? Wonder rkt is it the stock pipe that is best yet?

 

[revrider1]

I have never seen an M7 or M8 have any real power. Dont throw your money away, put a bigbore kit in it, turbo it or get the M1000. You wont be happy til you do JMO

 

[Ken Climb]

I grenaded a drive last New Years on my 07' M8. Replaced with a complete drive with an Aug 2007 build date. It did seem to roll a bit easier, not a huge difference but enough to notice it on the first ride. I figured the old one had been going for awhile and that's why the new one felt good.

That drive failed a month or so ago. No noticeable performance difference with the new drive.

That drive failed two weeks ago. Replaced with an 09' drive. No noticeable performance difference with the new drive.

Would be interesting to see repeatable results from someone doing a swap with a newer drive on an 07'. Should be pretty easy to do if someone has access to the drives.

Damm diamond drives! what the fawk? Mine has had a new under warranty as well also. Might be going back to yamaha sooner then I thought. This is insane!

 

[RKT]

Kelsey
Thanks for your well written theory on the different sleds.
Here’s my real world experience riding 9500’ to 11000’ in deep snow and some very hard pulls

I have both sleds. A 07 M8 153 and 09 M8 162.
The 07 with a 153 has the RKT head, RKT porting and RKT secondary clutch set up per Kelsey’s recommendations for my riding conditions. I installed all this at the beginning of last season with very disappointing results. The poor results turned out to be a bad primary clutch which was replaced before this year’s riding season. What a difference this made in performance
The 09 with the 162 has the SLP pipe set up and a shift assist bearing in the secondary
Side by side comparisons is very close if you consider the 09 with the 162 has the power claw track. I believe if I put a power claw on the 07 M8 that has the RKT set up it would run right with the 09 M8 with the SLP set up. The 07 with the RKT secondary kit shifts so much quicker that you can actually feel the difference between the two
My conclusion to this is Kelsey ‘s products can make a 07 run with a 09.
I am sure both sleds could still run better with some more tweeking but I am happy with the way both sleds run

Side note
My public apologies to Kelsey for some bad publicity I posted on his products in the past when the problem turned out to have nothing to do with his product

Vic,, Why would you not want to put the 07 cylinders, head, and DD kit on the 09?? If you did this you would REALLY see what the 800 is capable of..

The fact remains.. the brakes are on the 07 M8 and I do not know why.. The brakes are off the 09 M8 (I have one also).. why not really bring the 09 to life with the 07 parts you got from me?? I think, only then, you will realize the potential.. of the 800 Cat.. You will never get there with the 07..

I think you would be shocked at the difference in the power output of your 2009 M8 now, vs. if you did the parts swap.. I can assure you .. there would be no comparison..... Just an idea

Kelsey

 

[nickracer9]

does the power difference between the 07 to the 08/09 come from the ecu? looks like the internals are all the same.

 

[iluv2fly]

I have never seen an M7 or M8 have any real power. Dont throw your money away, put a bigbore kit in it, turbo it or get the M1000. You wont be happy til you do JMO

What are you smoking man? I love my new 09 m8 with the slp pipe, it runs great and has as much power as the xp's or new dragons.

 

[garciava]

Kelsey
I was actualy thinking about putting the 07 head and jugs on the 09 M8 just to see what it would do.

If I do should I remove the SLP pipe and run the factory pipe on the 09?

 

[RKT]

Kelsey
I was actualy thinking about putting the 07 head and jugs on the 09 M8 just to see what it would do.

If I do should I remove the SLP pipe and run the factory pipe on the 09?

I would try both pipes,, We did find some power with the SLP pipe..about 5 HP which is noticable on the hill.. It is nowhere near the power that is advertised but any added HP is a good thing. The pipe liked to melt my hood so I was not happy about that..

Kelsey

 

[RKT]

Damm diamond drives! what the fawk? Mine has had a new under warranty as well also. Might be going back to yamaha sooner then I thought. This is insane!

Sounds like it may NOT be in the diamond drive either..

I still think that the 2009 CAT 800 is the best 800 out there and the XP is very good also..I have both and they both are great sleds..

I had a Dragon 80 last season and it was a good sled also..

No need, IMHO, to return to the Yami.. Just get the better year Cat or DOO and you will have a constant smile on your face

Kelsey

 

[JasonAK]

Any updates as to why the 07 is a dog? I have not been able to ride a 08 or 09 so I don't know the difference. I have replaced dd and many other parts. I even repaled the bulkhead/tunnel assembley. I can say that cetian mods were well worth the money and have made the sled alot more fun to ride.

Jason

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

07 m8

Helped a fellow sledder replace his 07m8 reverse blown to heck setup with a straight non reverse diamond drive, then he just didn't have reverse...........didn't notice any go faster improvement?

I have replaced a good number of 07M8 reverse gear setups with BDxtremem gears......but lower gears, never failed to put a big smile on the owners face, went from lazy sled to .......lookout and be ready......but same for all the M7's.

Biggest improvement I see is gearing and a HOOKING TRACK, and so far the Pclaw gives the best results.

 

[vedward29]

This sucks. I ride an 07 M8 and it does feel like its missing power somewhere. Now i wish i could afford an 09 or newer. Dammit, i was going to hold out til AC 2012 sleds, maybe a 50th anniversary sled but thats still 2 years from now before i can snocheck one. I might have to reconsider this. thanks to all for the great information.

Bolt

 

[mtn_extreme]

My 07 162 with porting/head/torsion clutch wasn't running any better than my fathers stock 08 153.
I sold that sled and got an 08 with no complaints. I know that they say no changes were made to the motor, in fact I use my 07 ported jugs, and I had an 08 rear susp in my 07, but the 08 runs much much better.

Aaaahhhhh, but put a turbo on it and that sled is rippin

 

[Headrush]

Just bought a used 07 m8 153, but I'm throwing on a 162. It has the slp pipe and slp air intake. Holds 7950 climbing the steep and deep with the help of mtx weights. It just seems like its lacking some power here somewhere. Doesnt seem much better then my m7, actually very close. I'm sure my old 02 rmk 800 had more snap and power. Maybe its the 5 years on a yami turbo, but I'm sure this babies got more potential then this! Someone must have some magic recipe clutching/gearing info for me. Right now I'm sure I will be getting spanked by the xp's. With this pipe I thought it would narrow the gap, but not the way it is now. Pm me if its top secret.

I am looking to do this same set up, so I cannot comment on exact set up's, but from what I have read, get the Cutler adjustable weights and get your clutches dialed in, you should be hitting 8100 rpm's on this set up all day long and it should rip. I don't buy the 07's being weak for those that have commented....

 

[dunatyk]

I used to think that my 07 was weak. But I have an 09 to compare with and this is how they are setup. 09 speedwerx y-pipe 70 gram a/c weights and an o/w primary spring jaws can. 07 68gram weights RKT torsional secondary slp M7 high flow intake HPS can and powerclaw track o/w in the primary and some blue spring from the Racin Station in the secondary. Last weekend my buddy took my 07 with me and my 09 will holeshot it everytime but the 07 slowly catches up and passes me on the hill or flat deep snow or hardpack. The 07 also marked the 09 by about 2 lengths. We switched riders and got the same results. So either my 09 is a turd or my 07 rips. Havent decided yet

 

[fasta76]

What are guys liking for helix in the 07 m8 secondary? I have dalton ajst in the primary and a shift assist in the scondary! i ride between 3000-6000 feet. speedwerx y-pipe and can. what would you gurus recomend? Just instaled a new 162 power claw!