03 700 Heel clicker set-up

[gtfoxy]

I didn't want to hijack the other Heel clicker thread so I am posting my own.

I have a 03 SKS 700 VES, stock 144x1.25 Predator track, It is geared 21/40, SLP Can, button secondary.

I am mostly a on/off trail rider and want a good acting clutch for a variety of conditions. A lot of the trails around me are slow cornered where fast backshifting in the 4-5000RPM range is needed. I want a smooth engagement for on trail of about 4,300-4,500RPM with good linear pull. This set-up needs to also work well for sidehilling and on/off throttle ditch running (30-40 foot hills and revines). I'm shooting for 8,100-8,200RPM on the shiftout.

Elevation is 1,000ft. I would like a deep snow set-up with a lower engagement to help get on top of the snow and not dig down for when I head up to the UP for some off trail cross country riding.

I'm using 55-7's and began with what HC recomended, for weight set-up 3.2g all three possitions. I am running a EPI Red 145-300 primary, SLP 40-52/34 Helix, silver/blue secondary in 3rd possition. Engagement was about 4,200 RPM. This felt a little sluggish on the upshift and only pulled 7,500 RPM. I was happy with the engagement RPM with this spring for a trail spring.

HC said the primary selection I made would work for what I want to do but maybe try the black or white spring. I don't really want to go much higher on the engagement.

He recomended taking the 3.2g out of the center to get it closer to 8,000RPM on the shift out. I did and it worked, I am right on 8,000RPM on the tach. Upshift and back shift felt pretty good and on/off throttle response felt strong. Engagement went up a few hundred to about 4,400RPM. It seems to pull pretty linear and seams to backshift half way decent.

HC told me that with the 52/34 helix It would come up to 8,000 and then drop back and then climb again, meaning the engine couldn't pull the angle. So far it doesn't do this. When I lay on the throttle from a stop It cranks to about 6,000RPM and then whips to 8,000RPM on the full shiftout. Isn't that kind of what it should do?

My questions are this;

1) I have several other helixes to try. I have a R11, R32, 50/36 SLP and I am willing to try a few other profiles as well. What are going to be the caracteristics of the various helixes? Versus each other or vs what I am currently using?

2) In the instructions it said to keep adding weight to the shoulder until the engine bogs and then back it off. What does this accomplish? Should I waste my time trying it or not?

3) Should I try adding weight to the tip for better back shiftin gand take some away from the shoulder? Will this make it upshift slower and backshift faster? What will this do to top speed?

4) I still need a few hundred more RPM, he recomended trying the nest hole in the helix but I heard using the secondary to control full shiftout RPM isn't a good idea????

I'm sure I'll have more Q's as the thread goes on but this is a start.....

Thanks in avance!

 

[gtfoxy]

I played with the weights the other day. I went in incremental changes to 5.0G in the shoulder. It actualy jumps to 7,500 rpm and then creeps to 8,000rpm.

Any suggestions anyone?

 

[thefullmonte]

I've never tuned your style of heelclicker, but the shoulder position is designed for low rpm belt squeeze. Even with a stiffer spring you can often control engagement rpm with this. I've been finding that when tuned right, you will have a smooth engagement that transitions into a very hard pull very quickly. Once the weight starts to shift out and the shoulder goes past center of the pin it should have little or no effect on the rest of the shifting other than possibly adding to the backshift.
It sounds like you are really close to where you want to be. Does the response still feel good witht the weight you added to the shoulder? You may rev up quicker with just a little less weight in the tip. I'm thinking you may start to overrev just a bit though. Sorry I'm not actually more help.

 

[reekt]

Try using the weight recommendations from HC on the center and tip locations. Than use the gold primary spring (The gold spring 190/340 allows for fast back shifting from the primary clutch) adding as much weight to the shoulder to bring down your desired clutch engagement rpm. Finally try a Polaris R8 helix I believe it’s a 50/34 with a Polaris silver/blue secondary spring in the second hole for good back shifting out of the secondary clutch. The Polaris R12 50/36 works too, but the 700 power curve seems to like the 34 degree angle better to build rpm faster. If you try this set-up it should allow you to engage around 4000 to 4200 depending on how much weight you put on the shoulder and pull up to 8100 to 8200 rpm.

 

[gtfoxy]

Thanks for the response guys, I appreciate the input.

First off, like I said, I did try the 3.2 in the tip, shoulder and center and HC told me to take the weight out of the center.

I have been searching for an R8 but haven't come up with one yet.

I am going to try moving the secondary to the second hole and maybe that will speed up the shift out. From my understanding, adding more torsional load increases the time it takes for the secondary to fully shift out. I wanted to try the third possition and go from there.

He recomended going with the black spring for a trial but I can't seem to find it, but he said the white spring would work also. That will be the spring I try next.

It didn't seem to loose responsiveness with the 5.0g in the shoulder and 3.2 in the tip vs 3.2g/ 3.2g and midrange improved quite a bit. Now I feel I just need to start tweeking the shift out speed. I haven't had a chance to ride it extensively to see what the effect on backshifting is with the added weight in the shoulder.

He also said an R11 would work fine for what I want but with the gearing it is kinda fun being able to lift the front end in the air on the smallest of bumps and a quick snap of the throttle with the 52/34. I plan on trying the R32 as well. I guess it has the 50deg angle a little longer up the ramp than the R8. I do plan on finding one so I will hopefully be able to make a diect compsarison.

One of these days I am going to head out with all the tools needed for changing the helix and just try differnt ones.

 

[reekt]

Trust me when I tell you Randy doesn’t know all he thinks he does across all sled clutch tuning. When he lived in Michigan he gave me several set-ups to try for free to give him feed back on performance to gain knowledge of his product. Remember adding weight to the primary is for preventing belt slippage. The shoulder weight is for adjusting rpm engagement and up-shifting in conjunction with the primary spring. The helix angle in the secondary controls a lot of the engine rpm across the power curve. The secondary spring works a lot like the primary spring it prevents belt slippage in the secondary. When you wind the secondary spring you increase the secondary back shifting. Be careful because a tightly wound secondary spring will bog the motor. Good Luck……

 

[gtfoxy]

I had the secondary apart the other day and realized I actually had the sring in the 4th hole in the helix (after looking at the numbering on my stock helixes I have laying around). S0 I put it back to the second hole. Now the engine won't rev like it was. I went back to number 4.

I am planning on putting on a few miles today so I will try dropping the weight back out of the shoulder and check some other things.

Also, I plan on trying the white sping, 175-330, how would doing this effect a given combination of weight/ Helix/ Secondary spring set-up? I know the increase in initial poundage will raise my engagement RPM but what about the compressed poundage? Will that also raise peak RPMs with a given weight set-up?

I appreciate all the input...

 

[gtfoxy]

I put on some mileas yesterday and did some experimenting.

I tried varying the secondary spring possition (it did not like second or 3rd hole at all) in the SLP helix. Finaly I decided to try the R11 helix, 2nd Possition, MAN what a difference! It has tremendous snap down low (about through me off the sled) and when it shifts out it feels like it I hit the sauce. I went up to the 3rd possition and went back to 3.2g in the shoulder. Now it shifts out to 8,200 on the short runs I did after the final changes.

How will an R8 helix vary from the R11 I have in now? Is it worth getting one to try it?

 

[gtfoxy]

Update;

I put in the White primary spring and marked the primary to see if I am shifting out all the way.

It goes to 7,800RPM right off the bat and then goes to 8,200RPM. The belt removed all of the marker line but 3/8" at the top of the sheeve. Is that enough or should I be using more? If not what can be done to make it shift out all the way? More weight in the tip or shoulder? I am certain there is plenty of clearance for the shoulder and the shims were replaced with the HC unit, Belt side clearance is at .015" on a new X809 belt.

Also, I went to 23/40 gearing. It is better suited for the flat, open trails and lakes I have to traverse around here. I plan on trying 22/39 and 22/40 as well.