It you had to guess what would the price tag be you think?
Arctic Cat in Trouble
- Thread starter GoBigParts
- Start date
I don't think that Cat is going to fold, otherwise they wouldn't have spent a bunch of money coming up with a new chassis and engine. Releasing a new product typically increases a company's value, especially if that product is successful. The most likely scenario that makes sense, is that the company is going to be sold or go through some type of merger.
What's funny is KTM's parent company is restructuring trying to avoid bankruptcy.
I hope there's a buyer and a future for Cat. Like I said earlier, sled sales have been steady, although I don't have a handle on what this year has been like. What I've heard of Textron's ownership of Polaris made it sound like a bad marriage, but I wasn't around at the time. I didn't realize how big Textron was; it's not like they're in big trouble from what I can tell. I can think of several companies that'd make a better owner, but they didn't jump in eight years ago, and Textron isn't playing it like they've got a buyer.
There are three things really hurting snowmobile sales right now: the weak economy, lack of snow (in the mid-west especially), and loss of riding areas (trails and mountain areas). Hopefully the economy will at least stabilize, although the mess that's been created is huge. The snow will be back sooner or later, and that would help sales, but who knows when. The loss of riding areas could improve a lot: we could get back several national monument and WSA areas in the new administration. That's the one area I predict being better than neutral, but don't expect miracles. Two of those three things fall partly or wholly on the outgoing administration: ludicrous spending and energy policy drove inflation, and the actions of the people at BLM and the interior department show a total anti-motorized bias when it comes to public land. Nothing political - it's just fact.
This isn't the time to start a snowmobile company, for sure, but there's some value in Cat. I think there's potential for someone to buy them and find success just doing the minimum to keep building and selling sleds. You've got the new chassis, so you can skeleton crew R&D until things turn around. Unfortunately, Textron seems to be in a "don't care, we're done" mood. The "we'll continue to analyze the market" bit is only there to leave the door open to a buyer; if they really wanted to see where things go, they'd say they're totally committed to Cat's future. BTW, Textron bought Cat for $247M...
There are three things really hurting snowmobile sales right now: the weak economy, lack of snow (in the mid-west especially), and loss of riding areas (trails and mountain areas). Hopefully the economy will at least stabilize, although the mess that's been created is huge. The snow will be back sooner or later, and that would help sales, but who knows when. The loss of riding areas could improve a lot: we could get back several national monument and WSA areas in the new administration. That's the one area I predict being better than neutral, but don't expect miracles. Two of those three things fall partly or wholly on the outgoing administration: ludicrous spending and energy policy drove inflation, and the actions of the people at BLM and the interior department show a total anti-motorized bias when it comes to public land. Nothing political - it's just fact.
This isn't the time to start a snowmobile company, for sure, but there's some value in Cat. I think there's potential for someone to buy them and find success just doing the minimum to keep building and selling sleds. You've got the new chassis, so you can skeleton crew R&D until things turn around. Unfortunately, Textron seems to be in a "don't care, we're done" mood. The "we'll continue to analyze the market" bit is only there to leave the door open to a buyer; if they really wanted to see where things go, they'd say they're totally committed to Cat's future. BTW, Textron bought Cat for $247M...
It's all about business, Textron list of 48 subsidiaries is just the tip of the iceberg. They are massive and failure is not in their vocabulary.
Click on victory capital management.
Click on victory capital management.
I hope and assume you are right. Textron made this decision a long time ago. If they knew they were going to just shut the doors and liquidate then why go through added cost of retooling and launching a new platform? Just chug out ascenders for a couple years and be done with it.
I like the idea of CF-Moto possible ownership. They started designing side x sides in MN and their new ones are the real deal. Or Kawasaki seems to upping their UTV game as well. All could be decent fit. Just depends on what price they could get it for and how much of a financial drain it would be.
It's just a write off to them at their size. People don't even get fired over $100M bad decisions. I've seen it enough not to be surprised, but it's still shocking.
Truly unfortunate they don't care about the hundreds of families they effect with their lack of investment and competitiveness in AC. And it's not just AC employees, it's suppliers and all the supporting businesses effected. Textron had the resources to make it work, and they chose not to long ago.
They were only in it for the government UTV contract. Once that didn't happen, they moved on. Its situations like this that give corporations a bad name. But that is the roller coaster that is capitalism and honestly wouldn't want it any other way, no matter how bad this sucks.
Damn I really hope something happens and the AC sled line continues. I think they have a gem right now that has the potential to bring them back to the M series days. Man I really do not want to learn to put up with the handling of a Doo. Poo will never get a dime from me until they start taking quality control more serious.
I’m not a biker. However, I do think it would be cool to see Harley-Davidson jump into the sled business. If I’m not mistaken, they had a small presence in sleds back in the ‘60’s or ‘70’s. Maybe someone else put a Harley sticker on their sled.
Yes, when AMF owned HD they did make snowmobiles for a very brief period. Thankfully it was brief, they were not game changers by any means!
That was AMF. They bought Harley for a few years in the late 70s and early 80s. AMF then slapped the Harley name on sleds and crappy Italian dirt bikes.
I don't think Harley has the capital to throw in on this right now. They jumped on the DEI bandwagon and alienated their already declining customer base.
Harley is trying to recover from taking a walk on the woke side.
Dont know who owns Segway now days, but are getting s stronger 4wheeler offering, could also have potential. I'm thinking they probably hope Yamaha would aquire Cat but instead Yamaha left the business
They were so close to a one ski, just had to get rid of one ski and the running boards.
This is it's 20th, they still make them last I heard.
That was the reason for buying the Catalyst Alpha, they have the skid ridden by balance and foot pressure.
Horsing around a machine isn't my thing.
Running boards are a thing of the past, leave that to freighters.
Cat was so close.
Hopefully they just don't go away taking their skid with them.
This is it's 20th, they still make them last I heard.
That was the reason for buying the Catalyst Alpha, they have the skid ridden by balance and foot pressure.
Horsing around a machine isn't my thing.
Running boards are a thing of the past, leave that to freighters.
Cat was so close.
Hopefully they just don't go away taking their skid with them.
Kawasaki and Suzuki don't work on anything together anymore. I don't see Suzuki being interested in any new powersports ventures as they are letting their dirt bikes die out as it is. I could see Kawasaki maybe as a way to get on-shore manufacturing facilities. Possibly with the next administration taking over and looming tariffs that could make it a more attractive option to a few companies.
Logistically it's in Polaris's back yard. Could have separate dedicated engine plant, parts production plant, and an assembly plant within a couple hundred miles. Again, would only make sense if overseas tariffs kicked up.
What I would like to see most is an employee buyback. A down economy hasn't left many people with any disposable income to throw at a venture like that though.
Logistically it's in Polaris's back yard. Could have separate dedicated engine plant, parts production plant, and an assembly plant within a couple hundred miles. Again, would only make sense if overseas tariffs kicked up.
What I would like to see most is an employee buyback. A down economy hasn't left many people with any disposable income to throw at a venture like that though.
Yeah, the "boycot Textron" thing probably isn't going anywhere (obviously, I get the sarcasm). Unfortunately, the customers who are buying the $20m jets and choppers - if they care - appreciate Cat and snowmobiles in general about as much as they do mullets.
That's probably true: if it paid off, they sell $billions worth of side-by-sides and make back the purchase price and more. It didn't happen, so you liquidate and lose $50-100M and hope for better next time. Oh, you guys cared about your braaap sleds and the people who built them? Well, we care about money. Deal with it.
Suzuki was a name that came to mind, both because they used to sell Cat motors, and because they're smaller and would care more about the (limited) profit Cat could generate. But if they're backing away from motorbikes, that's a bad sign. I think all the giants, like Honda, Fuji/Subaru, Toyota, simply couldn't be bothered to get into such a small business. Yammi had all the time in the world to absorb/buy Cat, but instead backed out completely (and I bet selling Cat sleds with their name on it was just part of the draw-down). Polaris probably makes the most sense; trouble is, they wouldn't have much reason to keep both brands going indefinitely.
The idea of independent ownership is really attractive, assuming it's possible. Unfortunately, they'd probably have to find a way to sell sleds as a premium product, at a premium. Not easy, especially in a soft economy. But on the other hand, there's some market for custom-order only sleds with more exotic options: you get your sled with Raptor or Ohlin shocks, carbon fiber rails, a stock can you mail back and they put on another sled (wink wink) - on and on. I would prefer buying a sled from a company that only sold sleds, even though it'd probably cost more. I'd even gamble on a couple shares if someone comes up with a good independently-owned scheme. Ultimately, I do care because snowmobile development seems to be stagnating a bit, and if Cat goes, that can only get worse.
