Dialing in a sled for a small rider

[Carramrod]

Well officially got my sled out of break in mode over the weekend and got to meet and ride with a wonderful group of people. By the end of the weekend we were all in agreement, my sled needs a little tweaking for my size. Mostly in the handling dept. I am a very aggressive rider and have a very firm grasp on basics and techniques however I am working very hard on trying to couple my techniques together with finesse to evolve my riding but its just flat out apparent that sometimes my sled kinda rides me an is unresponsive to my input do to my small size. (I'm 5' 8" and 135 dripping wet so probably close to 160-165 RTR.) Sled is currently stock.(2015 800 SP 163)

Here are some ideas I have have to help with my sleds handling

#1-Put the fat girl on a diet.
Can- super easy weight fix.
-Headlight Delete
and???

looking to whack 20-30lbs off my sled while being reasonably economical.

#2-Steering/Handling

For sure shorten my riser

c3 Post forward kit?

Possibly Different Skis?

And... #3-Most Importantly, Suspension Setup for maximum responsiveness.

I have A TON of ski lift- In the right snow I can run over 12 ft tree NO PROBLEM and often out of the gate when coming out of a stuck or starting into a climb @ WFOT in softer snow I have 3-4 ft of lift. And in slow techy stuff my sled can be like a brick.

My front skis are set on the second softest setting
I run narrow stance with no sway bar

Torsion is setting 1

My limiter is on factory setting(Ive never touched it)

Center- Set on 2 to last from the bottom of the deep notch.(Im assuming its set very soft judging by how it looks)

While I know right off the bat some will say new shocks all the way around, financially speaking its just not in the cards right now. I could maybe pull off tracking down a set of x shocks but thats about it.


Any help, thoughts, idea, tips would be so greatly appreciated. Feeling free to expand on anything I may have already mentioned.

Hope everyone is having an awesome season!

Calli

 

[Mountain_Man]

What situations do you have the most problems with, other than the ski lift which seems you don't care for? Some times giving the sled different input is all it takes. It might not solve all problems, but it can help a lot. So I wouldn't assume it's all about your size, although having enough weight and strength can be a plus for some things. On the other hand, being lighter you might be able to make you sled do some things a heavier person has trouble with.

 

[Goinboardin]

What sled is this? Sounds like a 154 3" to me.

Cutting sled weight is not cheap.

 

[Carramrod]

What sled is this? Sounds like a 154 3" to me.

Cutting sled weight is not cheap.

It's a 2015 SP 163

 

[Carramrod]

What situations do you have the most problems with, other than the ski lift which seems you don't care for? Some times giving the sled different input is all it takes. It might not solve all problems, but it can help a lot. So I wouldn't assume it's all about your size, although having enough weight and strength can be a plus for some things. On the other hand, being lighter you might be able to make you sled do some things a heavier person has trouble with.

No I have too much lift skis are constantly off the ground.

 

[Goinboardin]

It's a 2015 SP 163

I see that in the original post now, must have missed it.

The rear torsions make a big difference. I'm 160lbs, running torsions on 5 plus I've moved my rear scissor bolt backwards 13/16" on the rails. Granted this is a 153 3" track, but it tamed the wheelie monster. When I first tried the 3" track torsions were on 1 and it was awful. Trenching POS that climbed nothing and was seeking earth's center. I run soft front track spring pressure (have a float) to help the sled get on snow, and stock limiter for better sidehilling control. The front springs are at 95psi (floats) and I'm currently loving the setup. This would translate to stock suspension as: ski shocks on stiffest setting, center spring on softest, stock limiter, and torsions on 5.

Try cranking the torsions first. In field changes are easy, so take a few minutes and play around with it.

 

[Carramrod]

Cool thanks. I will start with the torsions first!

 

[Solarguy]

Well officially got my sled out of break in mode over the weekend and got to meet and ride with a wonderful group of people. By the end of the weekend we were all in agreement, my sled needs a little tweaking for my size. Mostly in the handling dept. I am a very aggressive rider and have a very firm grasp on basics and techniques however I am working very hard on trying to couple my techniques together with finesse to evolve my riding but its just flat out apparent that sometimes my sled kinda rides me an is unresponsive to my input do to my small size. (I'm 5' 8" and 135 dripping wet so probably close to 160-165 RTR.) Sled is currently stock.(2015 800 SP 163)

Here are some ideas I have have to help with my sleds handling

#1-Put the fat girl on a diet.
Can- super easy weight fix.
-Headlight Delete
and???

looking to whack 20-30lbs off my sled while being reasonably economical.

#2-Steering/Handling

For sure shorten my riser

c3 Post forward kit?

Possibly Different Skis?

And... #3-Most Importantly, Suspension Setup for maximum responsiveness.

I have A TON of ski lift- In the right snow I can run over 12 ft tree NO PROBLEM and often out of the gate when coming out of a stuck or starting into a climb @ WFOT in softer snow I have 3-4 ft of lift. And in slow techy stuff my sled can be like a brick.

My front skis are set on the second softest setting
I run narrow stance with no sway bar

Torsion is setting 1

My limiter is on factory setting(Ive never touched it)

Center- Set on 2 to last from the bottom of the deep notch.(Im assuming its set very soft judging by how it looks)

While I know right off the bat some will say new shocks all the way around, financially speaking its just not in the cards right now. I could maybe pull off tracking down a set of x shocks but thats about it.


Any help, thoughts, idea, tips would be so greatly appreciated. Feeling free to expand on anything I may have already mentioned.

Hope everyone is having an awesome season!

Calli

She does have lots of ski lift and yes we witnessed her ride over...yes over some 10' plus tall trees. A little less lift and she might miss some of them. This lady can ride.

 

[treeboy]

If I were you I'd be playing with the set up of you sled first before dumping a bunch of money into it. Suspension settings, limiter strap, riser position an height, handle bar roll, even your riding position on where you stand.
My riding partner is like 5'1" an maybe 120lbs at best an she tosses around her 15 163 pretty good, all stock other than 1" shorter risers.

 

[DDECKER]

shorter risers will help the sled from wheeling and help your shoulders and back, as far as you being small... well you have to learn how to use the sleds power to your advantage, if you ever make it to Colorado or even Wyoming let me know I don't mind helping you learn, o yea, Im 5' 5"- 5' 6" depending on what liquor store im leaving... hahaha and I have 0 issues but its mostly technique, I cant muscle my sled around like most dudes

 

[Carramrod]

She does have lots of ski lift and yes we witnessed her ride over...yes over some 10' plus tall trees. A little less lift and she might miss some of them. This lady can ride.

Thanks Solarguy! It was awesome to get the opportunity to hang out and ride with everyone. I definitely argee that a little less lift would make me less of a tree magnet

 

[Carramrod]

shorter risers will help the sled from wheeling and help your shoulders and back, as far as you being small... well you have to learn how to use the sleds power to your advantage, if you ever make it to Colorado or even Wyoming let me know I don't mind helping you learn, o yea, Im 5' 5"- 5' 6" depending on what liquor store im leaving... hahaha and I have 0 issues but its mostly technique, I cant muscle my sled around like most dudes

You could always come to MT! And going by how many trees I've killed I can use power to my advantage I would just prefer it was more useable to go around and through them vs run them over.

 

[Jacob02]

I have a 2016 SP 163.

I had a lot of issues with ski-lift too. Honestly, I skeptically bought the T3 Relocate Kit from "Big John at Sled Head Racing" - it definitely made my track attack angle smoother and better. I can use the full range of throttle without having to burp the throttle to bring the skis down.

At the same time, I can still get ski-lift to get over a tree or rock if I braap on it.

Lastly, my favorite modification is the Skinz Steering Post Forward Kit. Jake at Skinz answered a couple questions I had and it immensly puts me in a better position with a 3" RSI riser (lower than stock because the SP bars are different than X).

Sounds like we have identical sleds.

I'm 155# - probably 190 ready to ride with all my Sherpa gear.

Well officially got my sled out of break in mode over the weekend and got to meet and ride with a wonderful group of people. By the end of the weekend we were all in agreement, my sled needs a little tweaking for my size. Mostly in the handling dept. I am a very aggressive rider and have a very firm grasp on basics and techniques however I am working very hard on trying to couple my techniques together with finesse to evolve my riding but its just flat out apparent that sometimes my sled kinda rides me an is unresponsive to my input do to my small size. (I'm 5' 8" and 135 dripping wet so probably close to 160-165 RTR.) Sled is currently stock.(2015 800 SP 163)

Here are some ideas I have have to help with my sleds handling

#1-Put the fat girl on a diet.
Can- super easy weight fix.
-Headlight Delete
and???

looking to whack 20-30lbs off my sled while being reasonably economical.

#2-Steering/Handling

For sure shorten my riser

c3 Post forward kit?

Possibly Different Skis?

And... #3-Most Importantly, Suspension Setup for maximum responsiveness.

I have A TON of ski lift- In the right snow I can run over 12 ft tree NO PROBLEM and often out of the gate when coming out of a stuck or starting into a climb @ WFOT in softer snow I have 3-4 ft of lift. And in slow techy stuff my sled can be like a brick.

My front skis are set on the second softest setting
I run narrow stance with no sway bar

Torsion is setting 1

My limiter is on factory setting(Ive never touched it)

Center- Set on 2 to last from the bottom of the deep notch.(Im assuming its set very soft judging by how it looks)

While I know right off the bat some will say new shocks all the way around, financially speaking its just not in the cards right now. I could maybe pull off tracking down a set of x shocks but thats about it.


Any help, thoughts, idea, tips would be so greatly appreciated. Feeling free to expand on anything I may have already mentioned.

Hope everyone is having an awesome season!

Calli

 

[Solarguy]

shorter risers will help the sled from wheeling and help your shoulders and back, as far as you being small... well you have to learn how to use the sleds power to your advantage, if you ever make it to Colorado or even Wyoming let me know I don't mind helping you learn, o yea, Im 5' 5"- 5' 6" depending on what liquor store im leaving... hahaha and I have 0 issues but its mostly technique, I cant muscle my sled around like most dudes

Calli, sidehills well on both sides, knows how to ride, and can make pulls that would scare away the majority of guys. She is looking to dial in her sled so it behaves better and will allow her more precision in technical terrain. She has very impressive mountain riding skills for a young lady.

 

[DDECKER]

You could always come to MT! And going by how many trees I've killed I can use power to my advantage I would just prefer it was more useable to go around and through them vs run them over.

Ill meet ya at togwotee pass feb 10-13th?

also some times less power is more some times

 

[Thebigcanoe]

I am about the same size and just had my 2013 X 163 dialed in to get back on top of the pow. They tightened the limiter strap 1/2 hole, loosened up the center shock, and set tension springs on 1. This will be soft enough in the pow but barely bottom out when on the trail whoops. I also had the clutch reworked with shorter pins and a new spring for a more consistent mid throttle power band response. The result was night and day and made for a much better day of riding and less digging out of trenches. The front shocks are still on 1 which I think is a little soft as it almost nose dives into the pow. I've found that changing my feet position by a few inches forward or back makes a huge difference in front end lift and dive.

 

[eddy]

#1-Put the fat girl on a diet. Can- super easy weight fix. -Headlight Delete
looking to whack 20-30lbs off my sled while being reasonably economical.

Lets leave these alone for now as expensive and meaningless. Cans make noise.

#2-Steering/Handling. For sure shorten my riser. . c3 Post forward kit? Different Skis?

C3 post forward is your friend. Shorter riser is worth a try. T3 Skis are good enough.

#3-Most Importantly, Suspension Setup for maximum responsiveness.

Ski springs: Preload set on #1, Consider installing next softer spring rate. Center track spring: Install one step softer spring with limiter strap pulled in one (or 2 holes) from stock. Rear spring: Leave stock with pre-load setting on one (or 2) if necessary to control ski lift). You DO need some lift, or the whole system does not work correctly.

Experiment one variable at a time with tuning. Do not listen to "Do this, do that" crowd. The factory engineers are not as dumb as thought of.
Your machine may also react better with partial throttle position, instead of WOT, in many situations to lower the front end depending on land speed..

 

[takethebounce]

We suck up the limiter on all of our XM's one hole from stock. Saves a bit of trenching and keeps the skis a little more planted.

Torsion spring spacers help keep the torsion springs aligned a little better and allow you to run a softer initial setting. For your weight I would try 2 or 3 stock, or with the spacers 1-2. Remember as well, you can always play with different torsion spring settings. Both sides do not need to be on 3 for example. There are two adjusters, set one to 2, and one to 3. There will not be any adverse handling when doing this. For simplicity we normally just set them the same. On the XP's we found we needed to run a much higher spring setting or even heavier rear springs to keep the skis down. The XM we tried lots of things like relocate brackets and heavier springs and ended up going back to stock. I am not heavy either at 150 lbs.

I like using Fly racings adjustable riser. It has a small offset which allows you to get the bars more forward. You can go with a post forward kit but if you are already getting a shorter riser, which is a good start then get the Fly one which gives you about 3/4" forward offset if I recall correctly. Its sometimes just enough to make a difference.

If it is a sled you intend on keeping awhile, you will never get it "dialed" in with the stock SP shocks. he range of adjustment and the stock valving just isn't intended for much more than keeping the sleds trail manners in check. If you are as aggressive as you describe I would be looking to the aftermarket world at some point for a solution.

 

[eddy]

Spring settings

Per the SKI Doo Factory Tech:
"Stock spring settings on 1 are designed for a 170 lb rider."
Strong indication at least 3 of 4 are just too stiff for a 135lb rider. IMHO.
Springs, as parts, are cheap. Get a spring rate set up dialed in for yourself first before going to replace expensive parts.
If you end up with softer springs you sometimes need shocks with softer dampening rate that either X package (ski doo dealer tech) or Fox (Tom's snowmobile -Sierra City CA) can custom valve to your needs.
Beyond that: Prepare to spend to spend cubic dollars, and yes, when dialed in are really that much better. Pick your suspension tech wisely!

 

[Carramrod]

RTR I probably weigh 165lb. Have been playing with the settings more but the snow has been horrible so i haven't been able to get out an really do a lot of good testing. The fronts are still on 2 I tried going softer but the front end dove too badly and had waaayy too much steering jarring. Set the torsion to 2 running the limiter and center the same until i can get a better ride for testing. Just installed a 6" riser immediately could tell it will help. Probably will put a post forward kit in within the next week. Thanks everyone so far for your input. I will be going to a Driven clinic in the next couple weeks so hopefully I can get it close and the Professor can help me tweak it a little more. Happy Riding

Calli