RUNNING AN AXYS-QuickDrive™ BELT ON A 2013-15 PRO WITH A TENSIONER? FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

mountainhorse · Dec 19, 2015

RUNNING AN AXYS-QuickDrive™ BELT ON A 2013-15 PRO WITH A TENSIONER? FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Since the Center to center (drive/jack shaft) is longer on a 2016 AXYS-mtn sled with QuickDrive™...
Both the 2013-15 QD belt and the 2016 AXYS-QD belt are 11mm pitch and 36mm wide.

Wondering about just running this Longer 2016 AXYS-mtn QD belt on the 2013-2014-2015 QuickDrive Equipped ProRide RMK's... using an aftermarket tensioner to allow this.

This would give you the ability to mount the lower sprocket with Loctite shaft compound on the splines... On those sleds that were unlucky to have some play in the spline fit on their sled... this would eliminate this "slop" (using a new, quality, fastener of course).

Gives the ability to not have to pull/install the pulleys with a belt change... and just leave the pulleys on.

It would also give you the ability to change the belt VERY easily in the field.

Give a little bit more belt wrap on the top pulley.

Give you the ability to set proper pre-load-tension on the belt, regardless of mfg. tolerances.

Give you the ability to use the "latest tech" 11mm pitch belts from polaris...

Not break the bank.... less cost than a complete aftermarket system.

Sure a fully CNC machined aftermarket system from TKI/C3/Kurt's may be higher quality parts than the stock pulleys... but lets leave that for another thread and keep this idea as the focus of the thread.

HMMM.

Thoughts??

The TKI tensioner is only $249.00
http://shop.tkicnc.com/Polaris-Belt-Drive-Factory-Tensioner-TKI-PTEN13.htm

PHOTO WITH THE STOCK (SHORTER) 2013-15 QD FACTORY BELT AND TKI TENSIONER.

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mountainhorse · Dec 19, 2015

For those that have both of the belts on hand...wondering if we could get a photo comparison... and tooth count comparison of the belt?

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mountainhorse · Dec 19, 2015

In fact.. if you already have the TKI tensioner... I see ZERO reason why you wouldn't want to run the longer AXYS-mtn QD belt with it.

I see no downside...but maybe there is one??

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ullose272 · Dec 19, 2015

mountainhorse said:
In fact.. if you already have the TKI tensioner... I see ZERO reason why you wouldn't want to run the longer AXYS-mtn QD belt with it.

I see no downside...but maybe there is one??

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I thought you werent supposed to bend the belt backwards. Maybe a tensioner from the inside?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

mountainhorse · Dec 19, 2015

Good question...

Thats what the Gates design manual says...but there are many aftermarket kit installs that are running a back bent belt.

I'm wondering if anyone that is already using this TKI tensioner on their stock QuickDrive belt ProRide-mtn is having any issues with that?

ullose272 said:
I thought you werent supposed to bend the belt backwards. Maybe a tensioner from the inside?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

diamonddave · Dec 19, 2015

Wow....I've been thinking about this for a while now doing the same thing. Loctite the lower pulley splines as well.

Question, would the TKI tensioner be able to tension up all of the slack in the 2016 Axys belt? How much difference is the CTC of the jackshaft to drive shaft changed and diameter/tooth count's of the Axys sprockets?

Also, could a gear down be done if there was enough tensioner left to take up the slack? Or is the 2016 Axys lower sprocket smaller? Larger?

Just some of the things I think about when stuck in 2 hour commutes from work.

diamonddave · Dec 19, 2015

Depending on how much longer the Axys belt is, I'm not sure if you would be able remove the belt with the lower pulley intact. You would need a fair amount of slack to in order to be able to remove the belt over the flange of the upper sprocket. But it would be cool if it would work.

mountainhorse · Dec 19, 2015

Dave... all good questions..

The Axys has a longer C2C distance...
Center-To-Center distance, Jackshaft/Driveshaft = 197.2 mm
bigger top sprocket (22), smaller bottom(43)

Compared to the smaller top and larger bottom ProRide-QD at 21 and 44 teeth with 2011-2015 PRO RIDE's had 191.2mm C2C.

So 6mm (0.23622") longer C2C on the AXYS compared to the ProRide.

HMMM... has me thinking.... is there a difference in the belt length...and by how much??

Anyone have a spare of both the AXYS and ProRide belts for good comparison of tooth-count and a photo?

Even better... if you do have an AXYS belt... for the brave at heart... will the AXYS QD™ belt slip on and off the ProRide QD™ without removal of the pulleys?

ZRP Engineering · Dec 19, 2015

Don't back bend the Polaris belt, it is completely different than any of the aftermarket belts out there

ZRP Engineering · Dec 19, 2015

However you could tension it from the inside

mountainhorse · Dec 20, 2015

I hear ya Bobby... and this is what I've been preaching as well...And now, wondering what kind of results TKI has been having with this tensioner for stock belts which they have had out for a couple of seasons now??

Gates also says not to back tension their GT Carbon PolyChain belts...but the aftermarket drives, except for the CMXDS, use back tensioners.

My sources tell me the factory belt is a Gates 11mm GT Carbon PolyChain belt specially made for Polaris.

I doubt it would have much of a "dog leg" in it though...

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ZRP Engineering · Dec 20, 2015

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for someone trying this to see if it works, as long as it doesn't have to be me

2Quickrides · Dec 20, 2015

Using your numbers and some quick math Mountainhorse, the Axys belt should be roughly (very roughly) ~12-13mm longer overall. As the upper and lower pulleys each have 11mm difference in circumference, that will virtually eliminate the pulley size differences (more to it than that due to the lower pulley getting slightly more than half circumference in contact patch, but this gets us close enough).
So with the 6mm shorter c2c on the Pro-ride, this will give roughly 25-35mm (1-1 3/8") of slack or bend to be taken up on one side.
Also meaning the belt will slip right on and off.

Bushwacker1 · Dec 20, 2015

mountainhorse said:
Dave... all good questions..

The Axys has a longer C2C distance...
Center-To-Center distance, Jackshaft/Driveshaft = 197.2 mm
bigger top sprocket (22), smaller bottom(43)

Compared to the smaller top and larger bottom ProRide-QD at 21 and 44 teeth with 2011-2015 PRO RIDE's had 191.2mm C2C.

Looking at these ratios and Polaris went from a 2.095 ratio on the Pro Ride to a 1.954 on the Axys. They also went to a 2.6" lug track which would make a person think they would be gearing down for this. The aftermarket kits all offer a gear down factor for the Pro also, and I believe they recommend it. Did the increase in H/P on the new engine make up for larger lugs and higher gear ratio?

rmscustom · Dec 20, 2015

Bushwacker1 said:
mountainhorse said:

Dave... all good questions..

The Axys has a longer C2C distance...
Center-To-Center distance, Jackshaft/Driveshaft = 197.2 mm
bigger top sprocket (22), smaller bottom(43)

Compared to the smaller top and larger bottom ProRide-QD at 21 and 44 teeth with 2011-2015 PRO RIDE's had 191.2mm C2C.

Click to expand...

Looking at these ratios and Polaris went from a 2.095 ratio on the Pro Ride to a 1.954 on the Axys. They also went to a 2.6" lug track which would make a person think they would be gearing down for this. The aftermarket kits all offer a gear down factor for the Pro also, and I believe they recommend it. Did the increase in H/P on the new engine make up for larger lugs and higher gear ratio?

Axys has 7t drivers vs the pros 8t... If memory serves me right the axys is about 2.2 ratio.

mountainhorse · Dec 20, 2015

Bushwacker1 said:
Looking at these ratios and Polaris went from a 2.095 ratio on the Pro Ride to a 1.954 on the Axys. They also went to a 2.6" lug track which would make a person think they would be gearing down for this. The aftermarket kits all offer a gear down factor for the Pro also, and I believe they recommend it. Did the increase in H/P on the new engine make up for larger lugs and higher gear ratio?

Since the drivers on all AXYS-mtn sleds are 7 tooth... the comparative ratio at the track would be lower... In the case of the 22/43, 7-Tooth combo... It has a comparative ratio of 2.23:1 (compared to an 8-tooth driver on the ProRide)

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revrider07 · Dec 20, 2015

What the top speed on the axys going down the trail? Everyone is bragging this motor up I call bs on there being more than 5 hp on new motor. Rode a geared down pro with 3 in and if felt strong. Is there any head to head comparison to a pro 3 in and new axys with 3. This new belt with tensioner might be a good option for turbo guys

mountainhorse · Jan 3, 2016

Top speed is not at all where the belt drives shine.

When I asked the direct question to the Polaris Engineering team members, in person, "Why not use the QuickDrive™ system on the IQ-Race sleds?"

They said that this type of riding was not compatible with the QuickDrive™ system... and the "mode of failure" was that the belts would strip belt teeth, even with the slipper drive-shaft systems. Also... at higher track speeds that could be seen in ISOC racing or trail riding... that the belt drives were experiencing out of parameter belt temps.

Plain and simple, IMO, if there were increases in efficiency and/or acceleration without reliability issues for Their application... the snowcross teams would be installing aftermarket belt drives across the board. I've yet to see any of the teams with secondary belt drives in place of chain drives, but I'm not a big snowcross follower either, so it's possible and lets hear about them if they exist.

FWIW.... my 2¢.

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mountainhorse · Jan 4, 2016

I am especially interested in this with the AXYS belt only being 1 tooth/root longer... and the ability to change easily in the field... without removing the top nor bottom pulley... AND, apply proper preload for best operation, tolerant of any production manufacturing variations.

I'd still like to see an AXYS QuicDrive belt put on a ProRide QuickDrive assembly... just to see how much dog-leg there would be.... and if the TKI tensioner for the stock belt could take up this amount.

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mountainhorse · Jan 5, 2016

I've sent Tom Kobza (TKI) a message.... hope he chimes in here .

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RUNNING AN AXYS-QuickDrive™ BELT ON A 2013-15 PRO WITH A TENSIONER? FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

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