Z-Broz A-arms question

FatDogX · Nov 14, 2013

This has been mentioned before in another thread but I thought I would just start a new one and address the question at hand, instead of hi-jacking another one.

For those of you who updated a 13 or 14 Pro RMK with Z-Broz 39" a-arms, did you change out or do anything with the front shocks????

Z-Broz's website is not the most clear as in small print they state the following,

Requires the use of 17.50" long shock or stock 2011-2012 length

I know 11-12 Pro's have 17.50" length front shocks and the 13-14 front shocks are at 16.63"

Now I'll throw another curve ball, I actually have a set of Raptors (13-14) that I want to mount up with these a-arms. Anyone know, what these measure and any recommendations???

Again, just wanted something to clarify for guys looking into these a-arms.

Thanks!!!

wjl · Nov 14, 2013

I called them before I bought there arms. The stock width I was told that the shaft end on the 13 and 14s walker evens can be replaced with 1" longer end for a cost.
I would think they have the same adapter for other shocks? They wanted me to think about buying a set of there's ( did not have the $$)
Give them a call they were very helpful.
In the end I went with the 36" arms and did not have to buy the ends, but I did do some research because I had a similar question.

LoudHandle · Nov 15, 2013

I may be able to help as well. I purchased a used set of what a fellow SW claimed were 36" width Z-Broz arms that turned out to be the standard width 38-39" instead. As he had gotten all parts installed at the dealer before even picking up the sled he assumed they knew what should be installed and that they were indeed correct. That was a near fatal assumption.

Long story short, running the standard width with the shorter shock will yield no ski pressure and no steering. Especially under acceleration. I suggest either trading the shocks for the longer ones or trade the arms for the 36"ers.

Your call but don't skimp and try to get by with what you have, your asking for problems.

FatDogX · Nov 15, 2013

Outstanding information, thanks guys!!!

Zbroz Racing · Nov 15, 2013

Shock lengths and A arm options

Sorry guys I just saw this thread. Ok lets break this down quick. You all are correct there is some differences in the length of shocks on the 11-12 model VS 13-14. (11-12 = 17.5" ext 13-14=16.6" ext)
Out 39" replacement kit is build around the 11-12 length but you can still run a 13-14 length on the front end and it will work just fine, you will loose some ride height in the front but I have actually had some guys (Short and lighter) prefer this for getting it on edge.
For those using the stock shock we offer a $60 kit that includes new eyelets that are 1/2" longer taking the length closer to ideal. It includes the clamp tool to remove the stock eyelet. Simple to do with a vise at home.

For our 36" kit we recommend a 16.325 long shock for the spindle angle and camber to be correct. You can stuff a 13-14 length shock into them and it will work but causes some camber issues at droop so we are recommending an internal spacer to take it down to the right length when using stock shocks. We do this for people and also stock internal spacers to offer with the kits.

(I would also bet that your Raptor shock uses the same thread pitch as a Walker Evans shock. They could tell you for sure but there is a lot of similarities between the two shocks and only so many thread pitches.)

trackvs2wheels · Nov 15, 2013

Just to be clear...

You CAN run the 39" arms with stock 13-14 shocks and you won't "lose steering control especially under power"?????

Basically you will lose 1/2" ride height in the front end, which could be easily made up for by increasing the spring tension on the shock??

Thanks Z-Broz!

LoudHandle · Nov 15, 2013

trackvs2wheels said:
Just to be clear...

You CAN run the 39" arms with stock 13-14 shocks and you won't "lose steering control especially under power"?????

Basically you will lose 1/2" ride height in the front end, which could be easily made up for by increasing the spring tension on the shock??

Thanks Z-Broz!

I would call BS on that! You are asking for trouble if you do. No matter the preload, the shock is still short, and the ski is still higher than it should be. I'm not saying you can't re-work the rear suspension to cope with the height loss, but do not see it as anything less than a accident waiting to happen. The set I bought used had the after effects of a 12" tree in the A-arm tube because he could not steer the sled with the shocks being too short.

Do what you want, but you have been apprised of the possible negative side effects of your choice.

Zbroz Racing · Nov 15, 2013

39" Zbroz Kit with 13-14 shocks

trackvs2wheels said:
Just to be clear...

You CAN run the 39" arms with stock 13-14 shocks and you won't "lose steering control especially under power"?????

Basically you will lose 1/2" ride height in the front end, which could be easily made up for by increasing the spring tension on the shock??

Thanks Z-Broz!

Yes you can run them the ext length is the major difference. Steering will not be effected in any way. Again for $60 you can have a longer eyelet kit that will put you into a more ideal length.

Ride height should only be effected slightly and you should run your spring pre load at the desired tension for your preferred ride quality.

Zbroz Racing · Nov 15, 2013

clearification

LoudHandle said:
I would call BS on that! You are asking for trouble if you do. No matter the preload, the shock is still short, and the ski is still higher than it should be. I'm not saying you can re-work the rear suspension to cope with the height loss, but do not see it as anything less than a accident waiting to happen. The set I bought used had the after effects of a 12" tree in the A-arm tube because he could not steer the sled with the shocks being too short.

Do what you want, but you have been apprised of the possible negative side of your choice.

The shorter shock does not effect the steering, A longer than 17.5" shock would by allowing too much droop angle and maxing out the ball joint or causing the spindle to get into contact with the arm at droop. Again the correct length is 17.5" or less and 16.6 will fit but the eyelet swap will make it very close.

To be honest we have tested from 16.6 " to 17.5" in eye to eye length on the Pro RMK and prefer 17.125 as the best for mountain riding IMO.
:typing:

akrevrider · Nov 15, 2013

Zbroz Racing said:
The shorter shock does not effect the steering, A longer than 17.5" shock would by allowing too much droop angle and maxing out the ball joint or causing the spindle to get into contact with the arm at droop. Again the correct length is 17.5" or less and 16.6 will fit but the eyelet swap will make it very close.

To be honest we have tested from 16.6 " to 17.5" in eye to eye length on the Pro RMK and prefer 17.125 as the best for mountain riding IMO.

ZBroz Racing

Please break this down to Barney level for me. Do I need to do any shock mods or order any shock parts to my 2013 Pro with the 39” stock width a-arms that I just ordered from ZBroz?

Knowing this information ahead of time will make the installation a lot easier before installing the ZBroz a-arms.

Thank you for the outstanding products & customer support.

AKFULLTHROTTLE · Nov 15, 2013

akrevrider said:
ZBroz Racing

Please break this down to Barney level for me. Do I need to do any shock mods or order any shock parts to my 2013 Pro with the 39” stock width a-arms that I just ordered from ZBroz?

Knowing this information ahead of time will make the installation a lot easier before installing the ZBroz a-arms.

Thank you for the outstanding products & customer support.

Sounds like you will need the eyelet kit..

FatDogX · Nov 15, 2013

So if I'm reading this right?

17.125 is the "ideal" length? to have with the Z-Broz a-arms (17 1/8)

13-14 shocks are 16.63 (16 5/8)
11-12 shocks are 17.50 (17 1/2)

So basically if you have the 13-14 shocks your 1/2" off for the ideal shock length. Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not better to be a tad shorter on shock length than to long????

I guess my question that most of us with 13 and 14's will want to know is, what can we expect by running the Z-Broz arms with the stock / no mods 13-14 shocks or something similar? (ride quality? handling quality? is it worth buying new shocks? and any other info would be great)

Teth-Air · Nov 15, 2013

LoudHandle said:
I may be able to help as well. I purchased a used set of what a fellow SW claimed were 36" width Z-Broz arms that turned out to be the standard width 38-39" instead. As he had gotten all parts installed at the dealer before even picking up the sled he assumed they knew what should be installed and that they were indeed correct. That was a near fatal assumption.

Long story short, running the standard width with the shorter shock will yield no ski pressure and no steering. Especially under acceleration. I suggest either trading the shocks for the longer ones or trade the arms for the 36"ers.

Your call but don't skimp and try to get by with what you have, your asking for problems.

I have to strongly disagree. I had two 2013 last year and on the one I installed the Z-Bros A-arms. This sled was much better to ride due to the shock mount position. It reduced ski pressure and made the sled roll up so much easier. I am considering on buying another set for my 14. Trail riding was not much different. Also I tried some Raptor springs on the stock sled and it was terrible because they were designed for longer shocks and the made the steering too heavy.

skibreeze · Nov 15, 2013

LoudHandle said:
I would call BS on that! You are asking for trouble if you do. No matter the preload, the shock is still short, and the ski is still higher than it should be. I'm not saying you can't re-work the rear suspension to cope with the height loss, but do not see it as anything less than a accident waiting to happen. The set I bought used had the after effects of a 12" tree in the A-arm tube because he could not steer the sled with the shocks being too short.

Do what you want, but you have been apprised of the possible negative side effects of your choice.

I call B.S. on your calling B.S. The only issue with steering is if the 36" kit is installed without grinding the proper clearances on the spindle. This is needed for the shorter arms, the shock length is irrelevant in this issue.

I have had both the 39" and the 36" kits on my last 3 Pros and will also be on my new one as well.

LoudHandle · Nov 15, 2013

skibreeze said:
I call B.S. on your calling B.S. The only issue with steering is if the 36" kit is installed without grinding the proper clearances on the spindle. This is needed for the shorter arms, the shock length is irrelevant in this issue.

I have had both the 39" and the 36" kits on my last 3 Pros and will also be on my new one as well.

Maybe I was not clear enough for you; and note this is not my personal experience but straight from the guy who took the front suspension off and sold it because it did not work for him.

A very well known a reputable dealer installed 39" Z-Broz arms with 36" Z-Broz shocks. And no matter what he did, including trying different skis, he could not get the sled to turn. There are numerous posts started by him asking for input on this issue and no one realized the dealers F'ck up until I had the arms in my hand, being sold as 36" arms when indeed they were 39" arms. Hope that clears it up. I don't want to drop any names here, but he is very well respected on this forum for his builds of all four manufactures sleds.

Call BS all you want. It does not change the facts as I have presented them!

Nytro MTX Sweden · Nov 16, 2013

How will my -14 Pro perform with std shocks, ZBros dual spring kit and 36" arms??

Is it better to go with the std walker springs???

Std shocks and springs without sway bar, hmmm will it work?

Thanks.

FatDogX · Nov 17, 2013

Anybody else????

trackvs2wheels · Nov 17, 2013

For what it's worth, I've talked with Boston Racing whose installed hundreds of Z-Broz a-arms and he's informed me there will be no issues with installing the 39" arms on my 13 Pro other than lowering the ride height of the front end by 1/2".

akrevrider · Nov 17, 2013

trackvs2wheels said:
For what it's worth, I've talked with Boston Racing whose installed hundreds of Z-Broz a-arms and he's informed me there will be no issues with installing the 39" arms on my 13 Pro other than lowering the ride height of the front end by 1/2".

Have you talked with anybody that has installed the shock eyelet kit on a 2013 Pro with the stock Walker Evans shocks? That is my biggest concern that I want to address before installing the set of 39" ZBroz a-arms.

trackvs2wheels · Nov 17, 2013

akrevrider said:
Have you talked with anybody that has installed the shock eyelet kit on a 2013 Pro with the stock Walker Evans shocks? That is my biggest concern that I want to address before installing the set of 39" ZBroz a-arms.

No, everyone I've talked to has chosen to forgoe putting the $60 eyelet kit on the 13-14 shocks to adjust them to proper length for the 39" z-broz arms. This makes me think it'll be fine to use stock 2013 shocks with the 39" arms

Z-Broz A-arms question

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