Need to Remove my Electric Start

XP Summit · Jul 18, 2013

Ok,

Since my last post got moved swap meet for what ever reason. I will try this again.

I bought a used 13 Pro 155 Silber Turbo from my buddy for the season. As you can tell from my screen name I have been a doo guy my whole life. This sled came with electric start installed and I want to remove and sell the es at a later date, down the road, when I get it off the sled, in the swap meet section of the snowest forum. Since I am not familar with Polaris like I am doo's I was wondering what is all included in the ES kit so that when I remove the kit it is in full, and I don't take something off that is needed. For instance on doo's all sleds come from the factory with ring gears installed while I just found out they come with the kit on the Pro.

I have to say it is weird, having a sled other than a doo as I know doo's inside and out. Then on top of that I get to throw a Turbo into the mix.... I have a lot of studying to do... to feel comfortable.

In my previous post Bugtoit mentioned I would need to swap primary's with someone... that is great info.

Is there anything else I am missing?

Cheers
Shawn

mountainhorse · Jul 18, 2013

Moved because it turned into a for sale post. Any questions related to sales... please see the swapmeet thread. Feel free to put it into the "Parts counter" at the sticky at the top of these forums.

You need to remove the battery, battery mount, solenoid, starter motor Drive, starter motor and bracket, primary clutch and charging harness.

You cannot remove the starter ring gear for a swap. You'll see in the diagram below... the non ES clutch does NOT have the bosses for the ring gear... so the ring gear alone is worthless to install the kit.

It's really straight forward and you'll see what you need to remove as you go.

They sell on ebay for around $350 for the complete kit used...Less if the clutch is not included. Street price is around $495 new with a $599 mrp.
A complete kit includes all the above and a brand new P85 primary clutch without weights. You may get lucky and sell it without the clutch but the buyer would need to provide the

.

.

mtncat1 · Jul 18, 2013

hey mountain horse I looked up the parts on line and starter kit was 599. not including battery and hardwear, clutch was sold separate also. just sayin last one I installed was like 899.for parts only. good luck. can't wait till fall aready feeling the itch.

mountainhorse · Jul 18, 2013

mtncat1 said:
hey mountain horse I looked up the parts on line and starter kit was 599.
not including battery and hardwear, clutch was sold separate also. just sayin last one I installed was like 899.
for parts only. good luck. can't wait till fall aready feeling the itch.

Mtncat!.. I hear ya these parts can get expensive... Pure Polaris (PG&A) can be a lot less expensive in "KIT FORM".

Kits include Clutch last time I checked, the PURE POLARIS Electric Start kit has all hardware right down to the zip-ties.... battery is separate though.

I'm checking this again with Polaris and will post complete kit contents of the ES kit.

Did you get a complete kit, all in one box from Pure Polaris, or separate parts/pieces in multiple boxes?

Although this is a photo of a complete Polaris IQ starter kit at Full list price of $599, it is typical of the contents of all Electric start kits sold
through Polaris accessories as a "KIT"

This one is part number 2877257

When you look it up on Pure Polaris or other online sources, the photo shows only the starter and drive, but the kit contents are as shown in the pic above.
Not a bad deal when you consider you get a fresh clutch with the kit.

The "stock" photo is not even for an IQ starter motor... there is NO angle-drive on the IQ or PRO Starters.
The PRO RMK and IQ share the same part number for the starter motor itself, 4012729. (superseded from #4012020 on the IQ)

I think that angle drive starter and stubby shaft is from the old 900 RMK's???

http://www.purepolaris.com/en-us/Snowmobile/Pages/Detail.aspx?ItemID=2877257

Cheers,
MH.

.

Polaris IQ ES Kit from Pure Polaris .jpg

LoudHandle · Jul 18, 2013

mountainhorse said:
…………………..
The "stock" photo is not even for an IQ starter motor... there is NO angle-drive on the IQ or PRO Starters.
The PRO RMK and IQ share the same part number for the starter motor itself, 4012729. (superseded from #4012020 on the IQ)……………………...

http://www.purepolaris.com/en-us/Snowmobile/Pages/Detail.aspx?ItemID=2877257

Cheers,
MH.

.

Are you certain? I'd swear the '13 PRO RMK ES that I Geo mod'd the bearing plate on had the angle drive starter on it.

http://www.oregontrailsports.com/OE...R_MOTOR_-_S13CG8//CH8_ALL_OPTIONS/96097/99316

mountainhorse · Jul 18, 2013

LH.. are we talking about the same angle?...The shaft coming out of the starter shown here that exits the starter at 90 degrees to the starter shaft-line??

Your link to OTS fiche shows the starter as in the photos and diagrams above... as straight, not 90-degree.

I've been wrong before though.

The pro does use the flex shaft to connect to the bendix-drive and sits at an angle to the bendix.
At and angle like this diagram.

mountainhorse · Jul 18, 2013

...

LoudHandle · Jul 18, 2013

mountainhorse said:
LH.. are we talking about the same angle?...The shaft coming out of the starter shown here that exits the starter at 90 degrees to the starter shaft-line??

Your link to OTS fiche shows the starter as in the photos and diagrams above... as straight, not 90-degree.

The pro does use the flex shaft to connect to the bendix-drive and sits at an angle to the bendix.

I've been wrong before though.

At and angle like this diagram.

MH, by definition you are correct, I was assuminhg you were calling the flex drive an angle drive. That's what I get for assuming, I'm the ***.

XP Summit · Jul 19, 2013

Thank you guys very much... this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Now Doo's had the ring gear on all the primary's and there is some debate, even with the more respected doo aftermarket shops if it is ok to remove the ring gear for harmonics, it's balanced with it, etc. If I run the current Pro primary, but remove the ring gear, is there going to be any issues... examples or concerns off the top of my head.

- Primary out of balance, will need to be balanced
- Strength
- Engine Harmonics out of wack.
- Engine might spool up faster, creating a more likely case of the DET sensor going off
- Maybe a boosted engine likes the additional weight??
- Is the ES Primary specifically designed to only run with the ring gear as they look like there is some design differences where with the holes
- Or is the ES and Standard Primary exact same, but they put an inner sheave with holes in it and slap on a ring gear and call it good.

Thanks for all the info!

Cheers
Shawn

mountainhorse · Jul 19, 2013

kit instructions and parts list.

Here is the list of the kit contents that I just received back from Polaris.

CLICK HERE for full kit instruction .pdf with color photos. May be helpful for the removal. (3.5mb)

MSRP on this complete Kit is $599. You should be able to find it for less through discout houses or Oregon Trail Sports.
Edit: OTS.. $520... for full kit all new with parts listed below. Used should be about $200 with all parts in list including clutch without swap-out.

ELECTRIC START KIT

Application:All Polaris Pro-Ride Snowmobiles

Before you begin, read these instructions and check to be sure all parts and tools are accounted for.
Please retain these installation instructions for future reference and parts ordering information.

KIT P/N 2879330

Qty......Description..................................................Part Number
1.........Asm Stud Plate.............................................1017181
1.........Weld Battery Box..........................................1017182
1.........Asm-Battery Box Bracket-Model: RMK........1017775
1.........Asm-Battery Box Bracket......................... 1017820
1.........Asm Stud Plate 60.96 mm............................1017255
1.........Asm-Pinion/Pinion Bracket...........................1204372
1.........Asm Drive Clutch ES ....................................1322800-SP
1.........Harness ES, DC-SDI Rush...........................2411513
1.........Circuit Breaker, 12 amp.................................2411592
1.........Cable, Battery/Solenoid................................2460393
1.........Switch, Magnetic...........................................4012358
1.........Cable, 1045 mm, Red...................................4013289
1.........Cable, 1335 mm, Black.................................4013290
1.........Asm-Starter Motor........................................4012729
2.........Hook-”D”.......................................................5224468
1.........Brkt, Elec Start/ Clip......................................5252966
1.........Brkt, Elec Start/ UCA Tube Upper................5254790
1.........Brkt, Elec Start/ UCA Tube Lower.................1018033
1.........Shield-Heat Battery.......................................5253414
1.........Strap-Rubber................................................5410608
1.........Shaft-Flex Starter..........................................6230404
6.........Cable Tie.......................................................7080138
1.........Clamp-Band, Narrow 70-90 mm...................7081279
4.........Nut, ¼-20 Nyloc............................................7542153
6.........Nut, M6 x 1.0 FLG-NYLOC Olive..................7547339
5.........Rivet, 3/16-0.090-0.290................................7661637
1.........Tie Cable Press Mnt Blk................................7080999
2.........Screw HXFL M6 x 1 x 16 8.8........................7518548
3.........Screw M8 x 1.25 x 25...................................7518699
2.........Screw M6 x 1 x 30........................................7518993
2.........Bolt-M6x1.0x15, PH/TX.................................7518656
1.........Foam-Seal, Rear Cooler...............................5810947
2.........Strap Panduit 14”..........................................7080761
1.........Clip Routing...................................................7670109
1.........Nut 1/4-20 Hex-Y...........................................7542105
1.........Washer 1/4 Spring Lock-Y.............................7552801
5.........Rivet, 3/16-.090-.29......................................7661637
4.........Screw-Txth-M5x0.8x15..................................7519113
1.........Screw-Hxfl-M8x1.25.....................................7519243
1.........Nut, M8x1.25 Flg...........................................7547332
1 ........Bracket, Battery Box Front............................1018527
1.........Instructions....................................................9924156
This Kit Includes: INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

You Will Need To Supply:
Battery (PN 4013045)
Clutch Puller (PN 2872085)
Strap Puller (PN 2870336)
Spring Puller
Flat Screwdriver
Metric Socket Set
Metric Wrench Set
Torque Wrench
Side Cutter
Large Phillips Screwdriver
Rivet Gun
6 mm Allen Wrench or Short Allen Socket

.

mountainhorse · Jul 19, 2013

XP Summit said:
Thank you guys very much... this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Now Doo's had the ring gear on all the primary's and there is some debate, even with the more respected doo aftermarket shops if it is ok to remove the ring gear for harmonics, it's balanced with it, etc. If I run the current Pro primary, but remove the ring gear, is there going to be any issues... examples or concerns off the top of my head.

- Primary out of balance, will need to be balanced
- Strength
- Engine Harmonics out of wack.
- Engine might spool up faster, creating a more likely case of the DET sensor going off
- Maybe a boosted engine likes the additional weight??
- Is the ES Primary specifically designed to only run with the ring gear as they look like there is some design differences where with the holes
- Or is the ES and Standard Primary exact same, but they put an inner sheave with holes in it and slap on a ring gear and call it good.

Thanks for all the info!

Cheers
Shawn

Shawn,

Since there is no difference between the ES 800 motor and the NON-ES 800 motor... removing the ring gear should not affect the operation...other than removing some mass.. The small amount of weight removed, but the engine may not run as smooth.

I've ridden back to back bone stock 2013's, identical except for the ES. I did not notice any throttle response issues... so, IMO, I believe the weight to be beneficial. The ES did run a bit smoother with less buzz in the bars.

For your project, I'd recommend having the primary balance and blueprinted with the sheaves cut... to make sure that this critical part is working smoothly and giving your sled all the power it can . Indy Specialties has done great work for me in this with my clutches in the past.

.

cateye5312 · Jul 19, 2013

It is my belief that if you remove the ring gear, you WILL need to balance the clutch. That was the reason given to me from Polaris when I tried to buy just a ring gear. Polaris does not sell them separate because they balance the clutch and the ring gear together once assembled. FYI, I installed two ES kits on a pair of IQ's. Since I don't do clutch work, I had the dealer do that part. With their cost and the cost of batteries and new clutch weights, each install came out to right at $900.

mountainhorse · Jul 19, 2013

I can see $900 easily on an install at full list price... $599 for the kit, $120 for the battery (which is over double the NAPA price), add another $100 for weights plus install.

Sub $600 if you do the work yourself and go through a discount house for the parts.

.

mtncat1 · Jul 19, 2013

sorry scot my bad looked it up in the regular accessory catalog and just saw the starter and drive kit for 500 bucks didn't know about the other source for the kit. that's a great price considering you get a clutch.

XP Summit · Jul 20, 2013

Wow you guys provided exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much! I first thread in the Polaris forum has proven a success.

Cheers
Shawn

mountainhorse · Jul 20, 2013

If you DO remove the ring gear... Besides the re-balance.

1) Mark the gear and the clutch so you could put it back in the same place (balance).

2) the screws are probably held in with red locktite... you'll need to heat them for the locktite to release.

.

05900 · Jul 20, 2013

If you remove ring gear you will need to have clutch balanced...or have buyer send you his without a ring gear,, easy swap for both of you.

mountainhorse · Jul 20, 2013

I've seen some people selling Take-out ES kits in the swapmeet of this and other forums, as well as ebay....
Often times they are attempting to sell used the kits for over $300 without the Primary clutch.... or simply including the ring gear.

Since you will not be able to bolt on a ES-starter ring gear to a NON ES Primary Clutch, the ring gear is useless.

I've had members in the past reach out to ask me what they should do to try to
fit the ring gear and it was difficult to tell them that the ring gear did them no good.

The buyer, after trying to install the kit, had to buy a whole new ES Clutch, to the tune of $470 at a discount price. ($570 Retail).

The kit really is a great deal because you get the Primary clutch with it as well... Then you can easily sell the old, non-ES, primary for
at least $250 if it is decent condition... Which brings the cost of the ES KIT, with all new parts, down to less than $275.

A used kit without the ES primary should go for around $200 or less if all the brackets/nuts/bolts/and
other hardware is included and is in good shape and the seller wants to swap out the primary for your non ES.

Assuming that the sellers ES clutch is in good serviceable condition as is yours.

Any more than that, or no swap-out of the primary, and you should consider the new kit then sell your old primary.

Lead Acid (liquid acid) Batteries can't be shipped legally via the normal methods.
I know the people here at the local shipping depot... someone shipped a lead-acid battery in a box with other items.
The battery leaked and damaged not only what was in their box, but a fair amount of others and some equipment.
After the damage was assessed, and Haz-mat service fees were paid, the shipper was on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars..
Plus some legal issues : (

.

.

XP Summit · Jul 20, 2013

mountainhorse said:
I've seen some people selling Take-out ES kits in the swapmeet of this and other forums, as well as ebay....
Often times they are attempting to sell used the kits for over $300 without the Primary clutch.... or simply including the ring gear.

Since you will not be able to bolt on a ES-starter ring gear to a NON ES Primary Clutch, the ring gear is useless.

I've had members in the past reach out to ask me what they should do to try to
fit the ring gear and it was difficult to tell them that the ring gear did them no good.

The buyer, after trying to install the kit, had to buy a whole new ES Clutch, to the tune of $470 at a discount price. ($570 Retail).

The kit really is a great deal because you get the Primary clutch with it as well... Then you can easily sell the old, non-ES, primary for
at least $250 if it is decent condition... Which brings the cost of the ES KIT, with all new parts, down to less than $275.

A used kit without the ES primary should go for around $200 or less if all the brackets/nuts/bolts/and
other hardware is included and is in good shape and the seller wants to swap out the primary for your non ES.

Assuming that the sellers ES clutch is in good serviceable condition as is yours.

Any more than that, or no swap-out of the primary, and you should consider the new kit then sell your old primary.

Lead Acid (liquid acid) Batteries can't be shipped legally via the normal methods.
I know the people here at the local shipping depot... someone shipped a lead-acid battery in a box with other items.
The battery leaked and damaged not only what was in their box, but a fair amount of others and some equipment.
After the damage was assessed, and Haz-mat service fees were paid, the shipper was on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars..
Plus some legal issues : (

.

.

Wow, I will make sure NOT to try to ship the battery then LOL.

XP Summit · Jul 20, 2013

mountainhorse said:
If you DO remove the ring gear... Besides the re-balance.

1) Mark the gear and the clutch so you could put it back in the same place (balance).

2) the screws are probably held in with red locktite... you'll need to heat them for the locktite to release.

.

Those are some great pointers... I am guessing I will drop it off at indy dans for a quick spin and balance.

Need to Remove my Electric Start

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