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HHS Actuary on ObamaCare - spending will go UP not down.

Wow, this from the government's own actuary at Dpt of Health and Human Services. (An actuary is "a person who calculates insurance and annuity premiums, reserves, and dividends")

The link shows the actual image of the official letter. Breitbart does it again.

"Richard Foster, Chief Actuary for the Department of Health and Human Services’ Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, released this week to several Congressional offices a financial analysis of HR 3200, the House version of ObamaCare. He reached some inconvenient conclusions for President Obama and Congressional Leadership:...[findings in link]

As of today, HHS still hadn’t published the analysis on their website, even though it was written by its own staff. We have a feeling it may never find a home there. So, we’ve brought it to you directly. Full financial analysis below."

http://biggovernment.com/2009/10/23...tal-health-care-spending-will-go-up-not-down/
 
I would not trust the opinion of anyone that recieves a paycheck from a healthcare provider. Here's an paper I recently completed and recieved an A- (my thesis was too bold)

Health Care Reform in America
I was raised to believe that we had the best health care in the world. I now know this is not true. If our system is so great, why do we see reports of hospitals, dumping uninsured, homeless patients in front of other hospitals? Or Insurance companies denying claims in the name of profit instead of patient welfare? 18,000 die annually because they don’t seek medical attention due to costs (Moore). The time has come for private control of our health care system to end. However, there is fear that reforming the current system will lead to big government or socialism.
While researching my sources for this essay, I injured my ankle by missing a stair step. I tried to play down how serious it was. I’m one of millions in this country who does not have health insurance. I used to be an insurance agent so I know how important insurance is to have. I simply could not afford to go to the local hospital, since I was not working and going to college. My girlfriend and I just got done paying a bill over $400 for an emergency room visit for her daughter. That was with insurance, which covered 60% of the overall bill, and I feared a visit for me would be over $1,000. Since I am a military veteran, I am allowed healthcare in the VA Hospital system, but I did not know this until after I looked at the Veteran Administrations website. Once I saw they were open twenty four hours, I found a link to a document to apply for reimbursement. My hopes were lifted once I read the statement. “cost-free medical care, medications, long-term care and beneficiary travel for treatment of your nonservice-connected conditions assessed.” (Department of Veterans Affairs). Free medical care, medications, long term care and they will pay my travel expenses? This couldn’t be right. Where is my deductible or co-pay? Who do I have to call to get pre approval? I immediately filled out the document and went to the VA hospital. At the emergency room desk, I explained my predicament and asked how much I could expect this incident to cost. The nurse was courteous as she advised me that the only thing I needed to pay was $7 for any prescription medication. I thought I would be there for half the night, but I spoke with two doctors and had x-rays taken immediately. I was surprised that I was home in an hour and a half. I was thinking of the irony of my paper and my accident and told my girlfriend that I had just experienced Universal Health Care. Why was the service much faster and friendlier than I expected? Why was it not the awful Universal Health Care that we hear in the media? What would I have done had I not been a veteran?
Nearly 47 million Americans do not have health coverage of any type and over a hundred thousand more filing bankruptcy for medical expenses every year. The United States is the only wealthy industrialized nation that doesn’t provide coverage for everyone. According to the World Health Organization, the United States health care system ranks 37th in the world in quality and fairness and has the world’s most expensive health care system (Palfreman).
Some may be inclined to the view that politicians in Washington are acting too quickly and they should discuss the issue more. The debate reported by the media today is nothing new. It has been going on for nearly a century since Teddy Roosevelt campaigned in 1912 (Mclaughlin). The health care reform opponents have instilled fear of socialism in us for decades. They claim we will give up our freedom if we allow a single pay or universal health plan to take over. The American Medical Association preached this fear in 1960’s when Medicare was introduced (Moore). They even had actor Ronald Regan record an LP titled “Ronald Regan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine”. Reagan’s voice circulated through homes telling Americans how we would lose our freedom if the Medicare reform passed (Moore). Even after the success of Medicare, we still see these tactics today. In the final debate of the 2009 presidential election between Sen. John McCain and Sen. Barak Obama, McCain said “Sen. Obama wants to set up health care bureaucracies, take over the health care of America through – as he said, his object is a single payer system. If you like that, you'll love Canada and England. So the point is...” (McCain) .
What is so bad about Canada or Great Brittan’s system? There are no medical bankruptcies and everyone is covered. Health care reform opponents tell us that wait times in those countries are unacceptable compared to United States standards, citizens pay higher taxes, and the government makes decisions for doctors (Palfreman). Here in the United States, insurance companies make some of the decisions for doctors, don’t they? Some insurance policies require services and procedures to be preapproved for the policy to pay, even in the event of emergency services. Who has time to wait for coverage to be preapproved before being rushed to a hospital in an ambulance? So we are told to allow corporations to decide for doctors and continue to bankrupt Americans with outrageously high bills? What about health care in other countries like Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Taiwan, and France? They all have desirable features. So why can’t we put together a plan that takes some of their features and works in the United States (Moore)?
There is no perfect health care model. Take for instance the German health system that has both private and public options. Approximately 90% of the population is enrolled in the public health care system. Germany allows those who can afford to purchase private health care to opt out of the public system. Even though the private health companies are not allowed to make a profit, it does not mean they won’t try and cut back on service. Author Anita Raghavan, in her article “Somewhat Socialized Medicine” published in Forbes, describes a comparison of health care service between two German citizens with the same illness, but different health plans. The citizen with private insurance continuously battled with his insurance company for treatment; while the citizen with public insurance had no problem with getting items and service recommended by her doctor for treatment. There was one exception, the public option would not cover an inexpensive balm to prevent bed sores. In comparison, the private insurer attempted to deny their patients breathing apparatus on grounds that it wasn’t specified in his policy. The patient stated “My insurer would like to see me dead.” Despite this, the German system has positive sides and is highly accepted by its citizens for good reasons. For one, there is no such thing as medical bankruptcy. Everyone is covered; medical procedures and drug costs are kept down due to the government forcing insurance and drug companies to compete with each other (Raghavan).
Unlike the German system, Taiwan does not allow anyone to opt out of the public healthcare system. They have no gatekeepers, meaning patients can go directly to a specialist without seeing a general practitioner first. And there are no wait times. Taiwan also has the lowest administration costs in the world at 2% of their Gross Domestic Product or GDP. Unlike the United States which spends nearly 15% of its GDP. Taiwanese are highly satisfied with their health care and have no medical bankruptcy. The new system was implemented in 1995 and still has room for improvement, but it is the most promising model for the United States to follow due to similar forms of government (Palfreman).
Everyone is covered in Japan. They have the lowest infant mortality rate along with the longest life expectancy in the world. There are no gatekeepers or need for appointments, and all prices are the same everywhere. Also, Japan only spends about 8% of its GDP for administrative costs. There are more private hospitals than in the United States. So, why would private companies in the United States not want to follow the Japanese model? One reason may be that nearly 50% of private hospitals in Japan are having financial difficulties. This is because the government negotiates a fixed price from every medical procedure to drug. Because the prices are set so low, the government would simply have to raise the prices at the next negotiation. Japan seems to have an opposite problem of the United States, where it is patients who go broke; doctors and hospitals are going broke instead. The private companies in the United States do not want to become like their Japanese counterparts (Palfreman).
But who would oppose something that would help so many? Medical attention should be given to anyone who needs it, not just to those who can afford it. Health organizations that make a profit in the United States don’t agree with this logic. The United States is the last wealthy, unregulated, price market left in the world. If prices of drugs, medical procedures, and insurance are regulated similarly to other countries, those businesses have reason to not want reform. In the other countries mentioned, insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit. During recent reform in Taiwan and Switzerland the major opponent was the health care industry itself (Moore, Palfreman).
If one looks at President Obama’s plan outline, he clearly states he would also not allow insurance companies to make a profit. In fact, Obama’s plan sounds very much like taking ideas of what works well in other countries and developing a system that will work in the United States (Obama). The health care industry representatives know if they still want to continue to be profitable, they need to defeat Obama’s bill. They rely on exploiting the fear people have with the loss of freedom in this country. They also state that reform will cost too much. But at the highest administrative cost in the world, who would it cost most? It would be the loss of profit to companies rather than the people of this county. If they succeed in keeping healthcare privatized, the insurance and drug companies will continue to make decisions based on profit or loss. We should not make the same mistake Germany did when it kept a private health care option. We need to have a single public system where everyone pays into with one option. That option being, that if you want more you can buy a supplemental private policy. The United States does not need to give up democracy or capitalism as health care reform opponents tell us. We already have socialized programs in place such as libraries, postal, school teachers, fire, and police services. The health and welfare of our people needs to be in the hands of the people, not corporations.













Works Cited
Amy Scanlan, et al. “A Comparison of US and Canadian Family Physician Attitudes toward
Their Respective Health -Care Systems”, Medical Care, 34.8 (1996): 837-844. Print
McCain, John. Barak Obama. United States Presidential Debate. Hofstra University. Hempstad,
19 Oct. 2008. Debate
McLaughlin, Neil. Talked to death. Modern Healthcare, 39.31, (2009) 20-20. Print
Obama, Barack. Joint Session of Congress. United States Capital Building. Washington DC.
9 Sept. 2009. Address
Raghavan, Anita. “Somewhat Socialized Medicine.” Forbes. 184.5 (2009) 86-94 Print
Sick Around the World. Frontline. Dir. Jon Palfreman. Correspondent. T.R. Reid, Documentary,
PBS. Sioux Falls.15 April 2008. Television
Sicko. Dir. Michael Moore. Dog Eat Dog Films 2007. DVD.
Sioux Falls VA Medical Center. United States. Department of Veterans Affairs, 2009. Web. 26
September 2009.
 
Bo and the democratic hierarchy do not give a rat's patutie about health care reform or health insurance reform or what ever they are calling it now. Their only real agenda is SOCIAL REFORM AND ALL THE TAXES THEY CAN POSSIBLY COLLECT.
 
"I would not trust the opinion of anyone that recieves a paycheck from a healthcare provider. Here's an paper I recently completed and recieved an A- (my thesis was too bold)"

But you have no problem taking the word of people being paid by the government to push their agenda?

"The United States is the last wealthy, unregulated, price market left in the world."


yep, the last free system in the world.
Japans system is about to fail and fail bad. They are looking at thousands of hospitals closing, they have a massive shortfall in doctors, why? Government interference.

Your whole paper tries to point out that we as a country have to do this.
My retort would be
Why?
We can get medical costs down a huge amount by just forcing the feds to back off and drop their interference in the system.
The feds regulate every single aspect of the medical system. They use antique ideas and liberal bias as their basis for control.
The fact of the matter is, there are steps that can be taken but it starts with getting the government out.
There are states that already have obamacare in place. They are going broke fast and the costs are skyrocketing.

There is no social issue that any government can intrude on and make it better.
Anytime a government steps in they try to use a blanket policy. That never works.
Can you show me ANY government that has health care as good as we have it in the US that isn't either broke, going broke or costs WAY more than ours?
When the federal government shows me they can run the programs they already have (SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare) in such a way as they claim they can, then I will be on board with their plans.
Till then, I will fight obamacare with every fiber of my being.
If obamacare passes this country's health care system is doomed. they can't get the medical systems they currently have to work and people think we should let them try with an all encompassing program??

Heres a question for those that think obamacare is needed.
Everyone keeps talking about a trigger to get government care since the "public option" isn't going to fly.
How about we put a trigger in place that states if the cost of obamacare goes above "X", obamacare is removed.
 
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"We can get medical costs down a huge amount by just forcing the feds to back off and drop their interference in the system."

Because that has worked so well on wall street.




"Can you show me ANY government that has health care as good as we have it in the US that isn't either broke, going broke or costs WAY more than ours?"
.

In my paper your see that the U.S. is ranked what? And we have the worlds most expensive health care system. We spend nearly 16% of our gross domestic product on health where nearly all the other countries mentioned in my essay spend only 8% or less (Taiwan spends less than 3%). But at this point Ollie I think we can agree we disagree. I still like ya though.
 
Because that has worked so well on wall street.

Apples and oranges. That's like saying there is a recall out on chevys so they have to recall all cars.

In my paper your see that the U.S. is ranked what? And we have the worlds most expensive health care system. We spend nearly 16% of our gross domestic product on health where nearly all the other countries mentioned in my essay spend only 8% or less (Taiwan spends less than 3%). But at this point Ollie I think we can agree we disagree. I still like ya though.

Yep, the worlds most expensive health care system. It is also the one EVERYONE in the world wants access too.

My point is and will remain, until the federal government shows me that they can run their current health care systems they will NEVER get my support and I will do everything in my power to stop them.
You say we spend 16% of our GDP on health care, yet bo even admits under obamacare they will control 20 to 25 percent of GDP, so by your own numbers his system is WORSE then doing nothing.
 
"We can get medical costs down a huge amount by just forcing the feds to back off and drop their interference in the system."

Because that has worked so well on wall street.

you just proved his point...LOL! wall street is big government in disguise.



"Can you show me ANY government that has health care as good as we have it in the US that isn't either broke, going broke or costs WAY more than ours?"
.

In my paper your see that the U.S. is ranked what? And we have the worlds most expensive health care system. We spend nearly 16% of our gross domestic product on health where nearly all the other countries mentioned in my essay spend only 8% or less (Taiwan spends less than 3%). But at this point Ollie I think we can agree we disagree. I still like ya though.


:confused::confused:
 
"We can get medical costs down a huge amount by just forcing the feds to back off and drop their interference in the system."

Because that has worked so well on wall street.




"Can you show me ANY government that has health care as good as we have it in the US that isn't either broke, going broke or costs WAY more than ours?"
.

In my paper your see that the U.S. is ranked what? And we have the worlds most expensive health care system. We spend nearly 16% of our gross domestic product on health where nearly all the other countries mentioned in my essay spend only 8% or less (Taiwan spends less than 3%). But at this point Ollie I think we can agree we disagree. I still like ya though.

I'm with ya on this one Fosgate. :beer;:)

To say that everybody wants our healthcare system is a gross exaggeration to say the least. Many people in other countries cannot fathom how we spend as much on healthcare as we do and everyone isn't covered.
 
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Not really, If you do some research outside of the mainstream media,(they always tell the truth right?, not since Cronkite) say a professional journal and some scholarly sources on the pickle we are in now. No major market crashes has been due to too much regulation of the govt. Antitrust, insider trading, co-mingling of funds, red taping etc. all came about due to market collapses or near collapses from the business practices of wall street. It's just a matter of time before wall street finds another angle to exploit.
 
To all the people that think obamacare is the answer, answer me this question.

How can we expect the feds to run a national health care system (which is unconstitutional I might add) when they can't run a much smaller system like medicare?

Japan has one, oh wait, it's going broke.
EU has one, also going broke and there are HUGE waiting lists for treatment. You can easily die before you get treatment.
Russia has one. No need to explain that one.
Show me one government controled health care system that has no waiting lines and isn't going broke. Anywhere in the world.
 
The WHO report is a joke! It is skewed to take in so many different
factors that are totally unrealted to health care....So many different
ways to count statistic's that it not a fair measuring stick to go by.....
:mad:
 
To all the people that think obamacare is the answer, answer me this question.

How can we expect the feds to run a national health care system (which is unconstitutional I might add) when they can't run a much smaller system like medicare?

Japan has one, oh wait, it's going broke.
EU has one, also going broke and there are HUGE waiting lists for treatment. You can easily die before you get treatment.
Russia has one. No need to explain that one.
Show me one government controled health care system that has no waiting lines and isn't going broke. Anywhere in the world.

Taiwan
Switzerland
Norway
Finland
Germany
France

Yes over 50% of hospitals are going broke in Japan. The Japanese govt nor it's people are not going broke because of health care (unlike the U.S.). They negotiate everything every 2years. The government will simply raise the prices that hospitals are allowed to charge. Taiwan has NO gatekeepers and actually have less wait time than U.S. patients. Great Britain has longer wait times than the U.S. (Not much longer). But don't make the mistake of throwing the worlds health care plans in with Canada or Great Britain. Which is much of the point of my paper is to educate yourself by looking up the information and looking at the raw numbers and public opinions of those health care systems. I would suggest looking up some of my sources to see for yourself vs. forming an opinion based solely on the mainstream media and coffee houses.

And not even streamlined as Taiwan, Germans clearly get more medical bang for their buck than Americans do (most figures are from 2007). They also have wait times similar to the U.S.

PERCENTAGE OF GDP SPENT ON HEALTH CARE
GERMANY 10.4%
U.S. 16%

HEALTH CARE SPENDING PER CAPITA
GERMANY $3,588
U.S. $7,290

AVERAGE ANNUAL GROWTH RATE OF REAL HEALTH CARE SPENDING
PER CAPITA 1997-2007
GERMANY 1.7%
U.S. 3.4%

OUT-OF-POCKET HEALTH CARE SPENDING PER CAPITA
GERMANY $470
U.S. $890

PER CAPITA SPENDING ON HEALTH INSURANCE*
GERMANY $191
U.S. $516

PER CAPITA SPENDING ON DRUGS*
GERMANY $542
U.S. $878

NUMBER OF PRACTICING DOCTORS PER 1,000
GERMANY 3.5
U.S. 2.4

AVERAGE ANNUAL NUMBER OF DOCTOR VISITS
GERMANY 7.5
U.S. 3.8**

AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY FOR ACUTE CARE
GERMANY 7.8
U.S. 5.5
 
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If we spend more than any other nation on health care now, how is spending another 1 trillion going to help?

Germany
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125495456609471843.html
going broke. System doesn't work.

Switzerland actully looks pretty good except it is almost as expensive as ours and still has wait times that could be in months. They arn't going broke only because they tax the dog snot out of everyone and severly limit the access to just their citizens. WOuldn't it be nice if our country did that.
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/health-care-abroad-switzerland/

Couldn't find anything on Taiwan except talking about how bad it was before their last change. Nothing since.

Finland. http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-finland-healthcare-medical
Never gonna happen here. You have to pay up front and then apply to get re-inbursed by the government. Of cource if the panel of doctors says it wasn't needed, you just bought it. Big brother controls your health over there. oh, plus it's going broke and needs a HUGE infusion of cash.

French. Pass
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm
 
My daughter who is as liberal as they come, gets ALL her news from both PBS and MSNBC so tell me how objective PBS must be.
 
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I'm just saying it is a good documentary worth watching. Look at both the liberal and conservitive information. I get the feeling that because it's Obama you people here want to support anything he has to offer. I didn't vote for him but think he can come up with a far better plan than the candidate I voted for. Initially a new healthcare plan that the speak of would cost a bit more simply because you have to allocate money out for what people already owe to an unregulated price in the health care system. Wouldn't be fair to start so called free coverage on say Nov 15th 2009 and if you owe any providers prior to that, though shet, you gotta pay them. Basically the govt would have to step up and pay off all outstanding medical debt. I tried to form my opinion after researching several sources (some of which I did not quote from or use in my paper as the assignment was only 1800-2000 words, I could go several pages). Before the assignment I was for Privatised health care (I was an independent insurance agent for god sake, why would I not be). I have been on the frontline of selling health and life insurance contracts for years. But when I had some of my own personal dealings with my own coverage in the private carrier sector and research I did for my essay and the event with the VA. I totally feel different and I believe this administration will find something better than we have now. It may not be perfect but if anyone has any ideas for a better system I'm open to listen.
 
I'm just saying it is a good documentary worth watching. Look at both the liberal and conservitive information. I get the feeling that because it's Obama you people here want to support anything he has to offer. I didn't vote for him but think he can come up with a far better plan than the candidate I voted for. Initially a new healthcare plan that the speak of would cost a bit more simply because you have to allocate money out for what people already owe to an unregulated price in the health care system. Wouldn't be fair to start so called free coverage on say Nov 15th 2009 and if you owe any providers prior to that, though shet, you gotta pay them. Basically the govt would have to step up and pay off all outstanding medical debt. I tried to form my opinion after researching several sources (some of which I did not quote from or use in my paper as the assignment was only 1800-2000 words, I could go several pages). Before the assignment I was for Privatised health care (I was an independent insurance agent for god sake, why would I not be). I have been on the frontline of selling health and life insurance contracts for years. But when I had some of my own personal dealings with my own coverage in the private carrier sector and research I did for my essay and the event with the VA. I totally feel different and I believe this administration will find something better than we have now. It may not be perfect but if anyone has any ideas for a better system I'm open to listen.

Look, don't get me wrong.
I am ALL for reforming the system.
However, bigger government control isn't the answer.
First off, it's unconstitutional for the feds to dictate that everyone has to have insurance. Let alone run it.

Second there are lots of things that can be done that would lower the cost and increase competition that have NOTHING to do with government.

Third, there is nothing in obamacare that would lower the cost of insurance. It is all about government take over of the health care industry.
And THAT is what I have major hearthburn about.

Most of the countries you listed above keep costs under control by dictating what hospitals and doctors can charge and even doing that costs are skyrocketing. We started this country to get away from overlords and government controls and I won't allow it to go back.

you want to see change and change that actually means something.
Force the feds to follow the 10th amendment and remove the powers they have stolen from the states.
 
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