Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

I keep pulling threads, even after shimming my motor, checking alignment with a pen, checking alignment with the cat bar, dealer shimmed motor to make clutches parallel, etc. Meets all cat spec (though that means crap to me).

I always pull threads on the outside of the belt (opposite the motor side) and i'm getting black marks on the outside of the primary sheeve.

So, opinions please. I've got 50% saying move secondary OUT, 50% saying it needs to go in (or the motor needs to go out). The ones i trust most, say move the secondary OUT. Which i'm going to be trying this weekend.

Curious what others have to say. Should my secondary go in, or out?

Nubulin · Feb 4, 2009

I would ditch the RKT secondary setup and use a stock type helix for your next ride. See if that makes any difference. Some people have great luck with them, others (like our group) not so good.

I would say gear down, but I see you already have.

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

Nubulin said:
I would ditch the RKT secondary setup and use a stock type helix for your next ride. See if that makes any difference. Some people have great luck with them, others (like our group) not so good.

I would say gear down, but I see you already have.

let me tell ya - this thing has been pulling threads since the beginning. Bone stock, bone stock with torsion, pipe with torsion, greared down w/ torsion, parelled by dealer, aligned by dealer, shimmed motor, etc etc. STILL pulling cords.

I've got mixed fellings on the torsion kit. Though i do like how adjustable it is. I didn't see that much improvement with it. I also may try the stock setup again as i have an older straight 36 helix, an orange Ti spring, a shift assist, a gold primary spring, and the white adjuster nut and helix cap. i can also run the torsion helix with the orange spring too. though i want to measure its depth. honestly, i wish i had two clutches so i could just try them back to back.

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

TTT - i want to keep this on topic.

Secondary in or out?

Dennis Sawyer · Feb 4, 2009

Please let us know if you ever resolve this problem. I've had the same dilemma with mine since I got it. On deep snow days I better have 3 belts with me. I've tried the same thing as you with little to no help. The only thing I havent checked yet is to make sure the clutches are parallel with each other. I'm gonna check that as soon as I get this cast off my leg.

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

Dennis Sawyer said:
Please let us know if you ever resolve this problem. I've had the same dilemma with mine since I got it. On deep snow days I better have 3 belts with me. I've tried the same thing as you with little to no help. The only thing I havent checked yet is to make sure the clutches are parallel with each other. I'm gonna check that as soon as I get this cast off my leg.

well, honestly i fell like my belt issue got WORSE after the dealer parralled my clutches. when they shimmed the motor to get it parallel i think that it know torques OUT of paralled when under full load. I'm gonna try one last thing before i pull the shim back out.

Still - Secondary in or out if i'm pulling the outside threads???

KMMAC · Feb 4, 2009

How heavy of a secondary spring are you using? Does the secondary clutch shift out all the way with the spring you're running right now? Some times just because you have geared down doesn't always solve belt problems without other clutch, or spring changes. What I am saying is, if the secondary clutch spring is too heavy the secondary might not be shifting out all the way. Which will in turn cause a bind and at the same time allow the drive clutch to pinch the belt too tight. Sounds kinda crazy I know, but had this problem years ago and found that after gearing down I was able to run the stock high altitude spring in the second to tightest hole and the whole system worked great. If you have a softer spring, maybe try that. Oh ya, I noticed that you said the dealer shimmed the engine, is it possible that since then the engine is now in a little bit of a twist? You know, up and down at the clutch? Not sure how you would check it but maybe look there. That is to say is left side of the engine higher or lower on the same plane as the driven clutch? Because the driven clutch is the known fixed position meaning all adjustments for alignment have to be made at the engine up, down, front to back. I am wondering now if the gearing that you have is still too high. I've had a rule of thumb that is, if the sled will run over 100 miles an hr. in your garage on a stand then it is too high geared. I think, that with the way this gear drive is constructed that cat had to ad a lot of gear to these sleds just to keep the power from destroying the gear box, IMHO. But opinions are like,,, well you know, I'm sure some one will explain away what I said so, what ever. Check the alignment up, down, and front to back see what happens.

winter brew · Feb 4, 2009

After one pull on a hill, which clutch is hotter? Or is there much of a temp difference to the touch?

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

I'm using a sno pro green spring in the secondary. one whole softer than center. I'll try backing it off one or two holes this weekend, but feel its in the right spot now as far as the secondary "feel" goes. I also may try a slightly softer primary spring - the yellow/green. This spring will lower the engagement a bit but also finishes softer which will help me shift out harder on top where i'm getting my black marks (more pinch). I'm hoping its a better match to the sno pro green.

I've also come to understand that the Ti springs have a tendancy to hang up more than the steel versions do. There are many turbo guys coming to the conclusion that Ti springs aren't good options and aren't as linear as was thought. If the Ti spring is hanging up, it seems likely it could be causing a stall in shiftout of the primary leading to the spring acting VERY stiff at that point in the shift.

As for full shift - YEP - in fact i think I blew a belt this weekend because it shifted out all the way and pulled the belt into the Helix = BOOM! I've since fabbed the white stopper to fit with the RKT kit. It blew at about 85 mph give or take as it hit a patch ice on a short WOT pull and ZING BOOM! if you get my drift. I'm geared down to what i think is perfect currently at 56/64, or 2.56:1 ratio.

as for the Z axis of the motor not matching the secondary axis, i see your point. i'm inclined to remove the shim, but want to do one last test this weekend, one thing at a time. First will be the yellow/green spring (or maybe the gold!?) and second will be shimming the secondary out.

I'm still waiting for someone to even GUESS which way my secondary should go if i'm pulling the outside threads though.

For kicks, i've got Kelsey, mnt_extreme, and my dealer saying it should move OUT. This seems backa$$wards to me, but i trust them and will give it a try.

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

winter brew said:
After one pull on a hill, which clutch is hotter? Or is there much of a temp difference to the touch?

No question - primary is hotter always. After the gearing and t-kit install, everything is cooler. BUT the secondary is WAY cooler than before. Primary and belt are still pretty hot though.

mtn mike on boost · Feb 4, 2009

why not put it on a stand, pull all the secondary shims, run it on the stand floating , shut her down and see how many shims it will take. i would think if the marks are on the outer sheave of the primary, the secondary would need to come out...

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

mtn mike on boost said:
why not put it on a stand, pull all the secondary shims, run it on the stand floating , shut her down and see how many shims it will take. i would think if the marks are on the outer sheave of the primary, the secondary would need to come out...

tried this, secondary didn't even move... further confusion ensued...

JasonAK · Feb 4, 2009

I have my secondary .10 thousands closer to the motor than arctic cat calls for. I was told to do that by a AC Mechanic. He said somtimes you have go even closer to get it right. I have well over 1000 miles on my belt. Acoring to min if you set it to the AC specs and ride hard in the deep it will burn the side of the belt every time. The AC spec are designed for the half trottle riders.

So I would try moving it in. Take a few shims with you on your next ride, easy enough to shim back in the field.

Jason

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

JasonAK said:
I have my secondary .10 thousands closer to the motor than arctic cat calls for. I was told to do that by a AC Mechanic. He said somtimes you have go even closer to get it right. I have well over 1000 miles on my belt. Acoring to min if you set it to the AC specs and ride hard in the deep it will burn the side of the belt every time. The AC spec are designed for the half trottle riders.

So I would try moving it in. Take a few shims with you on your next ride, easy enough to shim back in the field.

Jason

08s and 09s come NO SHIMS. It can't move in with out me machining the secondary... which is always an option.

Bill1010630 · Feb 4, 2009

Is it possible that the mag side motor mount is cracked? You may have to remove it before you will see it.

JasonAK · Feb 4, 2009

My mistake I was thinking that it was the same as my 07. If they have no shims how is it ajusted? I will ask my friend the AC mech.

Jason

1Mike900 · Feb 4, 2009

Maybe off the beatin path, But have you checked anything for binding down the line like diamond drive or track? If it is like driving with the brake on then nothing in the clutches will solve it. I would see if the track is turning freely or the secondary turns over easy with the track in the air?

Mike

mrquick68 · Feb 4, 2009

1Mike900 said:
Maybe off the beatin path, But have you checked anything for binding down the line like diamond drive or track? If it is like driving with the brake on then nothing in the clutches will solve it. I would see if the track is turning freely or the secondary turns over easy with the track in the air?

Mike

well, i've ran it with TWO different Diamond drives and it burned belts with both, though its better with the new DD lite and the lower gears.

track turns easy, no binding the shifting of the secondary clutch either. mechincally all looks good.

I'm not the only with this problem either plent of the 08 and 09 guys with 1000s are smokin' belts with threads being pulled out on the outside of the belt.

I've spoken with some of smartest in the industry too. They don't know either and cat isn't helping.

I'll get it figured out, so keep watching this thread for the fix.

Dennis Sawyer · Feb 4, 2009

I love your enthusiasm. I think your gonna figure it out too. I've been waiting for someone to start a thread like this. Way too many 1000's going through belts.

BarkBustnOutlaw · Feb 4, 2009

mrquick68 said:
well, i've ran it with TWO different Diamond drives and it burned belts with both, though its better with the new DD lite and the lower gears.

track turns easy, no binding the shifting of the secondary clutch either. mechincally all looks good.

I'm not the only with this problem either plent of the 08 and 09 guys with 1000s are smokin' belts with threads being pulled out on the outside of the belt.

I've spoken with some of smartest in the industry too. They don't know either and cat isn't helping.

I'll get it figured out, so keep watching this thread for the fix.

I have a 07 with the 4tower clutch and I run one belt a year and only change it every fall. I bet its the 3tower that is doing it.

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