2009 dragon ice build up on drivers

I asked the same question earlier and was told that there are no changes to the drivers. I witness one sled destroy itself when the track jump off do to the snow ball. After that I keep a real close eye on mine. During the half a year we got to ride our new sleds I had a bad vibration numerous times and each time it was do to snow in the drivers. Polaris said it was because my track was too loose so the dealer ajusted it banjo tight and it has still happen 3 times after that. I likely have 2 to 3 hours of play time associated with chipping ice last yr and with more sleds on the snow this yr. I expect we will see a few slide rails get twisted.

the new Dragon 155's dont have the front cooler which could slow down the build up?

SHould a person press off that center driver? I'm told to run the track tight anyway, just like there wasn't an extro driver.

Put a set avid's on, then take the old drivers and throw through a window at polaris HQ. They were a dumb idea to begin with but the fact that they didn't change them for the 09's is rediculous.

I'm not at all convinced that the center extro is a good idea...

Like RON has said in other posts, Carls has had some pretty hot running mod sleds that are turning some big HP numbers.... they only ran standard 2 involute drivers on them...not even extros!!

I think the ice is able to build up because of the closeness of the drivers and the ice can bridge this distance.

I'm interesed in seeing how this plays out this year.

what if you spray some lube in there so the snow will not stick, what are your thoughts on this

I don't want to spend money on extros. Wife wants to spend $ on house, gee, imagine that! SO it sounds like a good idea to pull the center driver. Has anyone done it?

RON,

What are your toughts on pulling the center EXTRO on the dragons for those people that ARE having problems with icing?

Jack and the boys have run some pretty hot sleds with the standard twin involute drivers.... I'm sure more HP than a stock or piped 800 dragon makes.

Boon Docker has the solve all for the ice build up on the drivers. its kinda spendy though

yeah, i love the extraverts though, they allow you to loosen your track way up.

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NOPE!!! Loose tracks drop your performance... and make the sled more prone to stabbing a rail... IMO it is a misunderstanding that a loose tracks spins easier IN USE.

Like many have pointed out in other posts, a track that is loose, under power is only loose on the bottom side... the top of the track is "tight as a banjo string" to coin another Snowester...

IMO, the twin extros are the way to go, but there are many different opinions on it... if you do go with extros, it would be to prevent ratcheting at NORMAL track tensions... which is why Polaris installed the center extro in the first place. As an example, Chris Burrandt pounds the snot out of his Turbo M-1000... much more than any mortal man, and that sled runs stock extroverts and no anti-stab kit. I think setup plays a big role!!

Scott said:

I've sprayed Pam on the underside of my tunnel....coated it thoroughly...didn't notice any difference.

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Butter flavor or not???????

mountainhorse said:

RON,

What are your toughts on pulling the center EXTRO on the dragons for those people that ARE having problems with icing?

Jack and the boys have run some pretty hot sleds with the standard twin involute drivers.... I'm sure more HP than a stock or piped 800 dragon makes.

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Jack said he's never seen the center extro icing... had 2 customers report one incident....probably sold 50+ Dragons last year. At this point it seems to be a mystery with no clear cut answers. Saw a report from one SW'er suggesting it occurs when parked eating a sandwich in wet snow conditions....remove it with the throttle getting track R's up. Is this the cause & solution? Does a loose track have an adverse affect here? Does thawing the sled between rides solve the problem? Too many drivers in a limited space? Driver material wrong last year letting snow stick? Tunnel coolers, front cooler???
Lots of questions, no answers........yet. Polaris knew of the problem-why did they leave the center extro in 09-would have been easy to leave it off? They did fix the snow injestion around the headlight.
Remove the center extro & keep the track tight.........should be an answer for those having the problem. Carl's ran some mod sleds with the extro last year & lots of sleds without the extro in 155 & 163 lengths. Carl's works with some of the hill climb guys too.
If I were having the issue I'd probably ask my dealer for a solution & if none available would ask Polaris to remove the center extro under warranty. (Would also request that they put it back when they have a solution)
Polaris takes info & provides some help through customer service lines but anything of consequence must go through the dealer. So-if the problem is widespread in some areas a dealer must have several customers with icing & one of those dealers is the only path to the solution, IMO. The part of the story that seems missing is what those with the issue have learned? What about their dealer?
Maybe I'm wrong but I have the sense that Polaris is very concerned over quality and customer satisfaction since the 900 debacle. It's still a big company & maybe not capable of a satisfactory reaction time.
All that said I'm still wondering how a "UHMW type" of plastic with a properly tensioned track can build up ice. Maybe the anwer lies in the compound of the driver????? I think I'll spray mine with some RainX but I'm guessing it won't stick.
Eric (MH) I saw your post about UHMW...you are our resident expert on plastics-whats your take? Looks like UHMW to me & all drivers have a hard slick finish. Is the snow building on the inner teeth of the involute drivers & bridging to the extro? This just doesn't seem plausible unless the track is loose leaving room for snow bridging to build on the teeth of the extro.

The only time mine built up was when I pulled it backwards downhill after we were stuck on a hill, in extremely deep snow. I guess the snow built up around the drivers.

After that it sounded as if the whole drive assembly was going to explode. I tried to bust fof the ice with a screw driver but by then it was too late. The ice ball was solid and the screw driver was useless. So we just drove back to the truck (slowly) and called it a day

Center Driver

PalousePoo said:

I don't want to spend money on extros. Wife wants to spend $ on house, gee, imagine that! SO it sounds like a good idea to pull the center driver. Has anyone done it?

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Had center driver problems form the very first ride last season. The ice/snow build up actually moved/pushed the center driver 3/8" off its center location. This happened two more times. The Polaris tech boys told my dealer to remove the center driver. This took care of the ice build up problem.

Eric (MH) I saw your post about UHMW...you are our resident expert on plastics-whats your take? Looks like UHMW to me & all drivers have a hard slick finish. Is the snow building on the inner teeth of the involute drivers & bridging to the extro? This just doesn't seem plausible unless the track is loose leaving room for snow bridging to build on the teeth of the extro.

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Heres my take on it...IMO

Have a look at a used RMK drive shaft after about 2 months of riding and open trailering... the splined shaft will have rust on it as the driveshaft is an untreated (bare) steel shaft....

Ice/snow sticks to rusted surfaces pretty well... heck, it sticks to shiny running boards pretty well too...

The drivers, made for Polaris by PPD (same supplier to Doo) are made of HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) which is not as non stick or as heavy as UHMW... but I dont think that the snow/ice is sticking to the driver themselves...

With all of the "nooks and crannies" and ribs/nubs on the drivers, plus the fact that there are now 3 drivers in the same space that there were 2 prevoiusly (they are pretty dang close together), I believe that the ice STARTS to build on the rusted shaft and then "grows" into a ball... as the sled moves some of the snow is slightly warmed but not melted... this acts to glue itself to the shaft ice chunk and get caught up mechanically in between the outer driver and the center Extrovert driver that is spaced pretty close... this space is small enough to allow the ice to "bridge" the gap and form a big nasty ice chunk.

I think this will only happen in certain temperatures (both ambient and snow) as well as a certain moisture content in the snow/air, how the sled has been run (bursts of speed compared to WFO compared to steady speed).... and temps in the track.

IMO, if you have a new dragon with 3 drivers, take the time to paint the driveshaft between the drivers with a good quality epoxy or other high quality paint... I really like the stuff from POR-15... this help to keep the ice from building on the shaft and "growing" in the space between the drivers.

Rons pragmatic approach to those that ARE having a problem is a good one to take up with your dealer IF you ARE having a problem.

I think that there are enough people with problems to justify Polaris looking into this more.... and I know that most have had no issues... Definately something to keep an eye on, especially if you hear the tell tale signs of ratcheting with this center driver setup.

As far as Polaris' attitude towards quality... hmmm... I think it is more on the part of G.E., their policy carrier for the warranty that has been leaning on them to minimize warranty claim exposure...did anyone notice how long it took ski-doo to make a recall on their obviously defective driveshafts... heck the aftermarket was offering cures to the problem because BRP did not want to expose themselves to this muli millon dollar recall.

RON or others... can you post up a good, clear pic of a new 3 driver RMK shaft (in or out of the sled)??

Great post. I posted twice last year to how I believe the Dragon Drivers are out of sinc or some problem with the drivers. Regardless of track tension a stock 08 dragon track does not roll easily. There is no way that this is not robbing h.p.. My question is. Has anyone cut the center extrovert driver out? Did it make a difference? Was it able to roll easy again? I am considering Avids for this winter, but maybe an hour with a grinder is an easier solution.

Center driverless & rolling resistance

rockinmranch said:

Great post. I posted twice last year to how I believe the Dragon Drivers are out of sinc or some problem with the drivers. Regardless of track tension a stock 08 dragon track does not roll easily. There is no way that this is not robbing h.p.. My question is. Has anyone cut the center extrovert driver out? Did it make a difference? Was it able to roll easy again? I am considering Avids for this winter, but maybe an hour with a grinder is an easier solution.

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My center driver was removed last season on warrenty for my D8. It made no difference in rolling resistance for the track. I am putting on Avid drivers this season. I agree, this current Polaris setup has to be robbing HP at the track!!!