• Don't miss out on all the fun! Register on our forums to post and have added features! Membership levels include a FREE membership tier.

Is there an additive that can be added to Ethanol fuel?

T

towngrunt

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2008
414
64
28
Was just curious if there was any additive that can be added to the Ethanol fuel to offset the Ethanol? Also what exactly is Ethanol?
 

94fordguy

Well-known member
Staff member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
14,576
5,244
113
38
Yakima, Wa.
Not sure on the additives, but here's a definition.

"Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is an alternative fuel fermented from corn, grains or agricultural waste or it is chemically extracted from ethylene (hydration). It is used primarily as a supplement to gasoline".
 

AndrettiDog

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 23, 2007
6,329
2,478
113
Colorado
This is the only one I've seen so far. There's likely others though.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

That is just helping with the water issue (ethanol attracts water and contributes to sludge buildup). It is not offsetting the ethanol in the fuel. I've been reading up a bit and asking around and it seems the only way to do this is to mix in race fuel/av gas. But you don't want the octane level too high because then the fuel won't burn as hot and you will lose power there. For my stock sled, I would be extremely happy with non-ethanol 87 octane.
 

800poodragon

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
1,705
352
83
62
Great Falls, Montana
Here is the way I understand it. There is no additive available that improves or eliminates ethonal. There are 2 different additives available thet are supposed to make gas last longer or as some say to improve it...that is the Startron and Stabil. Neither one actually improves anything in the fuel, what it actually does is add kerosene to the fuel to "cover up" how the fuel deteriorates and make it seem to run better after sitting for awhile. Ethonal actually does nothing to improve fuel but is a by product added to fuel to make X amount of fuel (oil) imported go farther. It actually makes your fuel burn faster (needing more to get the same amount of power), is harder on your engine parts because your fuel does not burn as efficiently, when mixed with gas decreases the amount of time that you can store your fuel as it will absorb any moisture or water (condensation) and become even more inefficient. It is just a "politically correct" thing to do as it provides revenue for the products used to make the ethanol (and some jobs)and keeps us from having to send more of our dollars for oil to the middle east(out of our country). EPA keeps wanting to increase ethanol blends but most vehicles cannot handle that. No there is not any additive to counteract or nullify ethanol in fuel. Once it is blended in it is there to stay. Sorry for the long rant...had an hour and a half conversation on all this and more just today.
 
L
Dec 7, 2007
62
58
18
Western WA
Race fuel will not offset ethanol.

The 'ethanol' resistor adds more fuel because the ethanol has less energy than straight gasoline. Without the correct resistor the engine will run too lean with ethanol in the gasoline. Adding race fuel will not get rid of the ethanol.

Options might be:

1) Find ethanol free gas - see http://pure-gas.org/ for a list of stations
2) Run the ethanol resistor
3) Put on a fuel controller to fatten up the fuel-air mixture, run premium and use the non-ethanol resistor - probably more risk & trouble than its worth.
 

800poodragon

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
1,705
352
83
62
Great Falls, Montana
I agree that it will burn without noticable problems. And it is something we are going to have to deal with. The problems now are that they are getting these motors tuned much better with fuel injection instead of carbs and the injection system has no way of knowing. And with these dyno tests now you can see the difference in performance it is making with how they have to tune them to get the most power and meet EPA. Also the inherent problem of ethanol and water. The problems are only going to get worse as the EPA wants to keep adding more Ethanol to the fuel.
 

mountainhorse

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
Dec 12, 2005
18,606
11,814
113
West Coast
www.laketahoeconcours.com
For filling... even/especially from the pump...Use one of these to keep as much water out of your tank as possible.

Use it at the pump and when fueling from cans... make sure that you keep your on-sled can clean and use this to fill it.... be extra careful when fueling in the field so that you don't get snow/water in the tank during the transfer.

http://www.outerwearsracing.com/proddetail.asp?prod=11022

FUELFUNNEL_1.jpg


Also... to get out any water without running it thru the system (like with IsoHeet etc) .. I like to use Aquasocks

They are working on a smaller one for power sports, but the #12 works fine.

http://www.aquasocks.net/

I've used them in a lot of equipment and they are very simple and work... I like to clip a small fishing weight to the bottom. so it drops right down to the bottom.

Put it on a fishing line, drop it in the tank when not in use for a while.. It only absorbs water not gas.

I keep a plastic jar with screw lid on it to hold it between uses... remove it from the tank, squeeze it out into the catch can in the shop and store it in the jar...pretty easy
...
 

AndrettiDog

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 23, 2007
6,329
2,478
113
Colorado
Ok, I agree that av gas/race fuel won't remove the ethanol fuel, but won't it dilute the amount of ethanol in your fuel? If you run 100% of 10% ethanol fuel you have more ethanol in your fuel than if you run 50% of race fuel with 50% ethanol fuel - RIGHT?
 
5

53farmer

New member
Jan 2, 2008
26
1
3
Estherville Ia.
My cat sleds have efi. Don't you think Polaris and Cat have this figured out. Ethanol is required in Minnesota. My brothers dealership puts ethanol in every sled that goes out the door. I think to much is being made of this.
 

tree climber

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 2, 2007
684
103
43
41
sioux falls sd
i thought the issue with the ethanol blend was that it caused detonation so by adding race fuel you would counteract the effect of the ethanol and be able to add more timing. just like you can add more timing running race fuel as opposed to premium
 

AndrettiDog

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 23, 2007
6,329
2,478
113
Colorado
My cat sleds have efi. Don't you think Polaris and Cat have this figured out. Ethanol is required in Minnesota. My brothers dealership puts ethanol in every sled that goes out the door. I think to much is being made of this.

We already know the sleds will run on ethanol fuel (10%). What we are looking for is better performance and the option to run the non-ethanol plug on the Pro Ride. More HP! Woot, woot
 
L
Dec 7, 2007
62
58
18
Western WA
Two related issues

If both fuel types have the same octane they should resist detonation equally (with correct A/F ratios).

Unless the correct plug is in, the ethanol mix fuel will run leaner which will tend to increase EGT. A lean mix can also be more prone to detonation. Adding race fuel should help the latter, and as Bugito suggests, adding race fuel will dilute the amount of ethanol fuel in your tank.

Question is - how much do you need to dilute it enough? That's the several thousand dollar question...
 
Premium Features