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(2) 2003 1M's wont start on their own. Anybody??

SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
I have 2 sleds 600 & 800 EFI purchased new in 03. This year both have a undiagnosable symptom ,they wont start unless I disconnect the fuel pump from the wire harness and prime it with a battery. They both run flawlessly when running. I have replaced both fuel pumps, started great for a few hours and then back to the battery hassle. Just cant shut them off all day unless I carry a battery and wire with. The 800 has new smart valves and the 600 smart valves I disassembled and cleaned. They both have been to the dealer and thy can find nothing out of spec ( stator, fuel pressure, etc.) My 800 is still at the dealer and they even tried swapping out the stator just to rule that out and installed a new ECU wire harness, The 600 they did "jiggle some wires" and was starting great so we picked it up and after a day & half of riding it is the same hassle again. Dealer has called on the 800 again and said he tried a new fuel pump and it started right up, so that must be it. I am not convinced as I have already done this, they both started right up after new pump install. The fuel relay is in the ECU. It seems to me it is a relay issue when pulling the cord? I dont think the dealer knows which way to go.
 
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SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
Just pulled the 600 by hand off the trailer into my garage. Then I decided to give it a pull, it started effortlessly on the second pull. After not wanting to start normally yesterday afternoon.WTF? I am going to pull my hair out!!
 
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diggerdown

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2004
3,452
677
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Deer Park Wi.
Has the dealer checked out the charge coil on the stator. The fuel pump has it's own charge coil. They need to build enough power in them to run the pump. That is why some EFI's, during cold starts, start very good on the 2nd or 3rd pull and others seem to take more pulls. The coils are weak but within specs!
 
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diggerdown

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2004
3,452
677
113
Deer Park Wi.
Has your fuel formulation been changed in Wa.? There could be something in the fuel that is making the pump sticky and hard to start. Try putting a 100/1 pre-mix into it and see if that works. You have nothing to lose by trying it. I doubt it would be a wire or component failure on both sleds at the same time.
 

SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
Tried pre-mix

Has your fuel formulation been changed in Wa.? There could be something in the fuel that is making the pump sticky and hard to start. Try putting a 100/1 pre-mix into it and see if that works. You have nothing to lose by trying it. I doubt it would be a wire or component failure on both sleds at the same time.

Thanks for that idea, Diggerdown. I keep thinking fuel also, tried the pre-mix this past weekend and then 800 was back to using battery to prime the third time I shut it off. AAAAHHHHH! Mind you this is with the brand new dealer installed fuel pump. The 600 gave us no problems until the second day, but only had to use battery twice, so most of the time it started normally. This is a improvement I guess ? !! It will be really hard to sell a sled that wont start in todays market. Maybe I can donate it.
 
A
Mar 25, 2009
2
0
1
I have recently acquired an 03 600 1m that has the same problem. I feel your pain! I have started carrying a 9 volt battery with me to get it started but like you say they are really hard to sell when they wont start. I will keep checking this post and hopefully let you know the fix when I find it.
 
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diggerdown

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2004
3,452
677
113
Deer Park Wi.
Yes. They say 28 volts it is putting out when cord is pulled.

It should be putting out between 13 to 15 volts! Are you sure they are testing the charge coil for the pump? They should be testing the orange wires.
Have they replaced the fuel filters and checked the fuel pressure reg. If the regulator sticks open a little bit, it can still run fine but the pump does not run long enough on just a pull to pressurize the system. Hooking a battery to the pump will allow it run for a longer period of time. The reg. is in the fuel manifold on the 600. You can take the snap ring off and pull the spring and plunger and clean it out.
 

SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
It should be putting out between 13 to 15 volts! Are you sure they are testing the charge coil for the pump? They should be testing the orange wires.
Have they replaced the fuel filters and checked the fuel pressure reg. If the regulator sticks open a little bit, it can still run fine but the pump does not run long enough on just a pull to pressurize the system. Hooking a battery to the pump will allow it run for a longer period of time. The reg. is in the fuel manifold on the 600. You can take the snap ring off and pull the spring and plunger and clean it out.

Yes,the orange wires and remember a brand new stator was tried also. The sleds do not have fuel filters but the 800 has new Smart Valves and the 600 Smart Valves were taken apart and cleaned ( not even dirty). The regulator I will look at tomorrow, very sure the dealer didnt. Thank you for your suggestion.:beer;:beer;
 

SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
Thought I would revive this thread. I installed a new pressure reg last spring(well, slightly used) and changed out the fuel pump just because I own 3 of those. Over a three day period while in my garage I went out and started it multiple times and it always started. Went up to the hills to go riding (my nephew rode it) and after the third or fourth time of shutting it off we were back to the #%$#*&& , $#@*& BATTERY THING AGAIN!!!! I havent even touched the wifes 600. Neither one will start as of now, thwe 800 will start with the battery prime method.

Any input is greatly appreciated
 
Hey Paul, I know this may sound odd but where do you buy your gas at. I worked at Arctic Cat for 22 years and I remember we saw some fuels that had additives in them that would clog the smart valves. I also remember there was a small problem with the hose that went from the fuel pump itself up to the outlet causing some pump problems because the hose would release some type of material and partially plug up the pump. The way we had to fix this was to remove the tank and clean it with alcohol. Then install a new hose from the pump to the outlet and they would be fine.

Hope this helps if you have anymore questions you can find me at funoutfitters.com under technical advice.

Jeff
 

KMMAC

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Lifetime Membership
Feb 7, 2008
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Mount Vernon, WA
Could it be in the kill switch wire maybe or the switch itself? Do you have a way to check fuel rail pressure after it won't start as you crank it over? If you are bypassing the switch with battery there might be a short. I know that some of these efi systems are finicky when it comes to electricity some times something as simple as a frayed wire can stop enough current from reaching it's destination.
 

WyoBoy1000

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Nov 27, 2007
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Red Lodge MT to North, CO
install a fuel pressure gauge, very handy to have all the time with problems like this, then you can watch the effect of pulling the cord and putting a battery to it and then start eliminating options from there.
 
H
Nov 26, 2007
260
17
18
Your moms house
No Start

When thes sleds don't start have you put a voltmeter on the power and ground going to the fuel pump? What are you getting? Generally when there is a difficult problem start checking your grounds. Make sure you go directly to the fuel pump connection so that you know the whole system is working. There is a capacitor in the ECM to store energy so that the pump will prime/start on the second pull. If you repeatedly have no voltage going to the pump after pulling, then check at the ECM from the stator. I definately would check the KILL switches also, or better off just bypass them for testing just to rule them out.
 
M
Jul 3, 2008
1,870
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Utah
Could it be in the kill switch wire maybe or the switch itself? Do you have a way to check fuel rail pressure after it won't start as you crank it over? If you are bypassing the switch with battery there might be a short. I know that some of these efi systems are finicky when it comes to electricity some times something as simple as a frayed wire can stop enough current from reaching it's destination.

Interresting, That's the first thing that I think of when I hear these types of problems with these selds.

That throttle backlash kill switch is a real problematic switch. It can be eliminated real easily.

down at the base of the handlebars there is a plug that has 3 wires in the top, and 2 wires on the bottom. You can unplug that two prong plug, and eliminate the kill switch, to see if that is your problem.

if it is your problem, just figure out which wire goes up to the thumb switch, and cut it, and put heatshrink around it.

hope that helps.
 

SledheadPaul

Active member
Premium Member
Hey thanks guys
The kill switches have already been eliminated and those usually give you problems when you are on the throttle not at start up and I always have good spark when trying to get these pos's started.and I am pretty sure the kill switch cuts spark. I will have to look into the fuel pressure guage thing havent thought of that yet and I should get a hold of a meter for testing as I was already thinking that I should do that next. You would think that when the dealer had it for two weeks they would have done all of these things!
 
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